Forest Fires.

North Shore · Post by **North Shore** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:45 pm

It's fire season again.
Everyone, please familiarize yourselves with RAC 2.9.2 in the AIM (page 180). While the restricted airspace is defined as 5NM and 3000' AGL, it would be prudent to give a much wider berth than that. Remember, that the 5 NM is from the edge of a fire - so if it's a large burn, the fire zone is even larger. Also, if it is a busy fire, we may have aircraft stacked up higher than 3000 AGL. If that is the case, we're probably watching what's going on down on the ground, so again, give us a wide berth, because we may not be looking for/expecting traffic that isn't concerned with the fire.

If you want to come and watch for a while (we'd probably prefer that you didn't) then that's fine...contact the Birddog on an appropriate frequency (generally 126.7, but if we are in a CZ, then try the MF.) if we don't get back to you immediately, wait a while. We'll get back to you, switch you over to our air-to-air frequency, give you an altimeter setting and then give you an altitude to hold. Climb/descend to it, and circle. Hold that altitude - there might well be other aircraft circling either 500 ft above or below you. Then SHUT UP until you want to leave. When you do, all I really want to know is that you want to leave the area in a certain direction, and that you are clear in that direction - no long-winded position reports here, please!

Anything to add, I am Birddog/CL guy/Driving Rain/Big Pistons??

Have a safe summer, everyone

Safe flying all.

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:52 pm

Do people actually "sightsee" forest fires?

I'm guessing by your post they do, but WTF? IT'S ON FIRE!

Chances are, the morons doing that aren't on AvCanada, but any flying information is good information.

So thanks. But you won't see me anywhere near a forest fire in a plane... unless one day I'm lucky enough to get paid to bomb them!

-istp

goldeneagle · Post by **goldeneagle** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:23 am

istp wrote:Do people actually "sightsee" forest fires?

I've done it on occaision, but it's not really 'sightseeing'. News hounds in the back, and they want/need photos. Yah, i know, everybody hates the news hounds, but, they pay the bills on time, and the cheques never bounce. The photos they take are actually instrumental in providing the general public an overview of what's going on, and why it's important to keep funding levels up for our guys fighting the fires. Yes, we can be a pain for the crews at times, trying to work into a busy traffic area, but, everybody has a job to do, so, you talk to the guy in charge on the radio, then figure out a way to go in close, get the shots, and try not be _to much_ of a bother.

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:47 am

Sometimes the fire is located in proximity to an outpost camp. We understand that pilots flying in and out of these camps have a job to do, so we try our best to accomodate.
Sometimes the tankers/helicopters work lone wolf ... that's working a fire without the aid of a bird dogs. The tanker/helicopter may or may not be working in conjunction with ground crew. If there is ground crews the tanker crew is most likely talking to them on company FM and have a much increased work load. So please call on 126.7 to give us a heads up.

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:38 am

The scariest ones are the pilots who think they can just sneak into a lodge or camp low level, by not talking to anyone and you end up face to face with them unexpectately. My experiences are that the birdogs and tanker pilots are more than willing to accommodate anyone if able to, so please don't be afraid to communicate and let us know you are in the area.

... · Post by **...** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:13 am

I hope everyone has a fun, somewhat busy summer, from coast to coast to coast.

Fly safe everyone...

IABD

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:54 am

Hey IABD, I heard you had an interview across the pond for the big irons. Hope it all went well!

sammy · Post by **sammy** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:23 pm

deleted

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:47 pm

Sammy, read RAC 2.9.2 in the AIM (page 180). The area around a forest fire is restricted airspace which is defined as 5NM and 3000' AGL. This means that you fly around it by the distance specified and if your camp is in the area and you have no way of establishing communications with the Birddog or the Tankers, well you pretty much just turn around and fly back home.

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:51 pm

That's simple Sammy... Stay clear until they're gone. Sorry if you don't agree with the answer but that's just the way it is.

Often the tankers will only be a few minutes if the fire's small, if the fire's a big one do you really think it wise to proceed on to your camp when there might be an evacuatation order for the area.

sammy · Post by **sammy** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:22 pm

gonzo

DC6driver · Post by **DC6driver** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:12 pm

I dont want you in my stack so please dont ask, thanks.

sprucemonkey · Post by **sprucemonkey** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:49 pm

Enjoy.

Zapp Brannigan · Post by **Zapp Brannigan** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:04 pm

there's really no reason to get that close to a fire anyways if you're just "sightseeing". Smokes are visable from a long distance away and if there is open flame from a hot fire, so may also see that from a distance away.

Just be safe and don't get in anyones way. Everyone working a fire is doing just that, working. And it's hard challenging work enough without worrying about other traffic not on fire suppression.

cedar tree · Post by **cedar tree** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:05 pm

My opinion is to stay away from forest fires in British Columbia.

Stacks usually include many tankers separated by only 500'. Many fires are at high altitude, causing complications with stacking tankers, and sometimes a 2nd stack is created. Communication can be at full capacity.

This can be very busy ATC for the birddog and it is not in the BC Forestry SOP's to allow common aircraft to enter this environment. Quite simply, it is dangerous. Prior permission for media occurs, but even this has proved difficult.

And keep in mind air tankers are often circling above 3000' agl.

Scuba_Steve · Post by **Scuba_Steve** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:30 pm

Hey guys quick question

We're usually bringing crews into airports nearby most of your fires, since we can, we tend to stay really high if we're overhead of a fire (like 10,000 feet if we can) but if we do get into a situation where we need to get close in order to descend to the airport (Ie armstrong) are all the birdogs/tanks/helos monitoring 126.7? or is there a fire specific freq we should try and get ahold of you on?

Cheers and have a good season I'm sure I'll be crossing paths with all the OMNR drivers at some point this season!

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:40 pm

Steve, the dog should have 126.7 on one set unless he needs an MF. The problem is sometimes it's volume gets turned down real low and calls get missed if they're busy handling a number of aircraft and working the FM
There are specific freqs that are allotted for our use however we (tankers/helitack) never get that info until we are dispatched because every region and bird dog have their own. The tankers could be from one base and the dogs from another. I was using 122.92 the other day with BD 2 up at Whitedog and 122.65 at Clearwater Bay with BD 8, how they choose em I don't have the faintest

I guess it would be possible to get the radio room to pass on that info or once you contact the the dog on 126.7 to ask him for his working freq. The problem we encounter the most is Joe Blow using those freq's as their Soap Opera Channel while we're trying to work a fire. Very distracting and annoying

grimey · Post by **grimey** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:49 pm

edit: oh snap... they don't like direct linking it.

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:02 pm

Thanks for the try Grimmy I still got some learning to do

cedar tree · Post by **cedar tree** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:17 pm

If a fire is within reasonable range of an aerodrome, then the birddog/s will be monitoring that frequency. Finding out what frequency air tankers are operating on could be difficult, but could be done by calling the BCFS Air Tanker Centre in Kamloops.

Birddog aircraft call 126.7 arriving at a fire, but once actioning, it is quite likely they are on a bomb frequency and an air to air frequency to communicate with helicopters. Listening to 126.7 while on a target is rare due to distraction.

If a fire is under daily suppression in an area of issue, a notam should be released explaining frequency usage.

Keep in mind, the tankers are orbiting to keep the area of suppression in sight, so at 5nm your biggest worry is keeping a watch for departing or arriving tankers. Few tankers are TCAS equipped.

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:18 pm

[img][img]http://images6.theimagehosting.com/104.cc0.jpg[/img]
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arsenal · Post by **arsenal** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:37 pm

While we're at it...

arsenal · Post by **arsenal** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:48 pm

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:20 pm

AWESOME shots arsenal.

grimey · Post by **grimey** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:38 am

Was that from last year's fire near Vancouver?