Cleared on course
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Doctor Evil
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Cleared on course
I am departing CYXD with a clearance to XXXX via direct.After the usual vectors for traffic I am often then "cleared on course".What does ATC expect at this point---are they anticipating me going present position direct or do they expect me to go and intercept my original course from departure point to destination?This seems to be consistent source of confusion for many pilots so any feedback would be appreciated.
This is one of my bigger pet peaves from pilots and controllers alike!
Cleared on course technically means to go on course - as in from where ever you are now to the flight planned route - be it an airway or point to point direct.
Cleared direct can even be further confused with "cleared present position direct". Cleared direct may include a big turn that once you roll out of should have you going direct the cleared point. "Cleared present position direct" could involve an even bigger turn so that you intercept the track from the exact point the direct was given to the next point. This can make a big difference when your turning radius is expressed in many NM.
Clear as mud? No wonder it gets all messed up...
Bottom line, if in doubt from either side ASK!
Cleared on course technically means to go on course - as in from where ever you are now to the flight planned route - be it an airway or point to point direct.
Cleared direct can even be further confused with "cleared present position direct". Cleared direct may include a big turn that once you roll out of should have you going direct the cleared point. "Cleared present position direct" could involve an even bigger turn so that you intercept the track from the exact point the direct was given to the next point. This can make a big difference when your turning radius is expressed in many NM.
Clear as mud? No wonder it gets all messed up...
Bottom line, if in doubt from either side ASK!
Hi Dr. Evil,
The use of the term "on course" can cerainly be a little confusing. Personally, if I use it, I will issue a heading to intercept it as I believe there can't really be any confusion there........... "Turn left heading 330, intercept the on course" or actually state the airway. It is different to "cleared present position direct", especially if you have filed an airway.
Just my 2 cents.
The use of the term "on course" can cerainly be a little confusing. Personally, if I use it, I will issue a heading to intercept it as I believe there can't really be any confusion there........... "Turn left heading 330, intercept the on course" or actually state the airway. It is different to "cleared present position direct", especially if you have filed an airway.
Just my 2 cents.
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invertedattitude
- Rank 10
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High level anyway if we say "On Course"
It will always be included with something like:
"ACA XXX Cleared direct BRADD on course"
What exactly do they say?
Just C-XXXX "Cleared on course"
Sounds strange... there must be something else in the transmission...
"Present position on course?"
That would mean direct from your current position to destination to me, but I understand your confusion.
It will always be included with something like:
"ACA XXX Cleared direct BRADD on course"
What exactly do they say?
Just C-XXXX "Cleared on course"
Sounds strange... there must be something else in the transmission...
"Present position on course?"
That would mean direct from your current position to destination to me, but I understand your confusion.
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Flying Low
- Rank 8
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- Location: Northern Ontario...why change now?
I have always thought "cleared on course" ment the airway or track designated in my clearance (...cleared to the Thunder Bay airport Sioux Lookout direct...). In this case I have always intercepted this "path" before pointing myself at T-Bay.
If ATC says "...cleared direct (or present position direct) Thunder Bay..." then I hit 'direct' 'enter' on the GPS and point myself at T-Bay.
If ATC says "...cleared direct (or present position direct) Thunder Bay..." then I hit 'direct' 'enter' on the GPS and point myself at T-Bay.
"The ability to ditch an airplane in the Hudson does not qualify a pilot for a pay raise. The ability to get the pilots, with this ability, to work for 30% or 40% pay cuts qualifies those in management for millions in bonuses."
That certainly is a little ambiguous. My guess would be that you are cleared to resume your own navigation any way you like to join your filed on-course route. I have seen controllers get caught out by this one when the pilot does exactly what you suggest FG, crank it over hard to join, or turn back to the VOR............
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jonathan_tcu
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Can I add this question then, I've been monitoring the first Jazz flights out of here in Timmins, as well as North Bay and Sudbury around 6 am local or 10 z and noticed something peculiar. The pilots request the quickest departure rwy and last week, a few straight days in a row, were cleared with 'dept rwy XX on course'. Try the next week, same rwy, same altitude, usually Timmins or Sudbury direct YMS then either flight planned or V164 Toronto, and dept rwy ( same rwy as last week) just turn left on course. Reading all of your posts, is there a REAL diff? 
FSS wannabe, just curious about stuff, that's all
Used to see this "cleared on course" given out of YYC a fair bit.
I never really knew for sure what was wanted either, but I noticed it was normally done when there was little traffic conflict on the climbout and I figured the controller was happy with just about however we did it, but was for sure interested in getting us on the airway not any direct routing.
I always just used 45 degree intercept if my next waypoint was ahead of me and 30 degrees intercept if I was abeamish and 45 wouldn't be enough. I remember that from some ancient IFR rules...or at least I think I do.
Never had any complaints with that tactic.
Lemme know if I am out to lunch.
I never really knew for sure what was wanted either, but I noticed it was normally done when there was little traffic conflict on the climbout and I figured the controller was happy with just about however we did it, but was for sure interested in getting us on the airway not any direct routing.
I always just used 45 degree intercept if my next waypoint was ahead of me and 30 degrees intercept if I was abeamish and 45 wouldn't be enough. I remember that from some ancient IFR rules...or at least I think I do.
Never had any complaints with that tactic.
Lemme know if I am out to lunch.
One area I find is a bit of a pain for me is the new breed of co-pilot who was raised on the GPS and is totally lost without one.
Many bottom feeder cargo carriers do not have ant sort of certified RNAV equipment. They either have an old handheld GPS Velcro'd to the steering wheel or a panel mount with an out of date databse and therefore do not(or should not) file a certified RNAV as an equipment code on a center stored flight plan.
Most air carriers I have been involved with do not make available on a golden platter in easily digestable form a copy of the actual centre stored flight plan. The actual route that is filed with ATC is on the much photocopied out of date version of the company Operational Flight Plan. If the pilots are too lazy to look it up or don't give a damn, they may find that the route they want and what is filed are quite different.
It is my opinion that if you are "cleared on course", you are to intercept the route you have filed. Now if you have a legal GPS and file as such, cleared on course to me means direct to the first waypoint past where you are. If you do not have a certified unit and file airways, then you intercept the airway. I always turn to intercept the airway unless I am either cleared direct or request and then cleared direct.
If in doubt, ask.
Many bottom feeder cargo carriers do not have ant sort of certified RNAV equipment. They either have an old handheld GPS Velcro'd to the steering wheel or a panel mount with an out of date databse and therefore do not(or should not) file a certified RNAV as an equipment code on a center stored flight plan.
Most air carriers I have been involved with do not make available on a golden platter in easily digestable form a copy of the actual centre stored flight plan. The actual route that is filed with ATC is on the much photocopied out of date version of the company Operational Flight Plan. If the pilots are too lazy to look it up or don't give a damn, they may find that the route they want and what is filed are quite different.
It is my opinion that if you are "cleared on course", you are to intercept the route you have filed. Now if you have a legal GPS and file as such, cleared on course to me means direct to the first waypoint past where you are. If you do not have a certified unit and file airways, then you intercept the airway. I always turn to intercept the airway unless I am either cleared direct or request and then cleared direct.
If in doubt, ask.
The average pilot, despite the somewhat swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
Are you saying the only difference was "dept XX on course" vs "dept XX, turn left on course" ? (i.e. specifying the turn)jonathan_tcu wrote:Can I add this question then, I've been monitoring the first Jazz flights out of here in Timmins, as well as North Bay and Sudbury around 6 am local or 10 z and noticed something peculiar. The pilots request the quickest departure rwy and last week, a few straight days in a row, were cleared with 'dept rwy XX on course'. Try the next week, same rwy, same altitude, usually Timmins or Sudbury direct YMS then either flight planned or V164 Toronto, and dept rwy ( same rwy as last week) just turn left on course. Reading all of your posts, is there a REAL diff?
If so, there is a difference in terms of non-radar separation when a turn is specified, vs no turn specified.
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invertedattitude
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To clarify my above post "Present position on course" is not something I have personally ever heard, just throwing out possible suggestions as to what this controller said.
To avoid confusion ATC should always indicate a specified fix/heading to fly to.
If you want to be technical, if you were vectored away from your flight plan the correct thing to do is:
A.) C-GXXX Cleared direct to (Next fix on your F/P, considering if you are able direct) on course, or balance unchanged.
B.) C-GXXX Turn L/R heading XXX upon interception of V/JXXX cleared on course.
Most aircraft in highlevel airspace are able direct these days, with RNAV, direct to just about anywhere so long, as posted above, it is in the database.
To avoid confusion ATC should always indicate a specified fix/heading to fly to.
If you want to be technical, if you were vectored away from your flight plan the correct thing to do is:
A.) C-GXXX Cleared direct to (Next fix on your F/P, considering if you are able direct) on course, or balance unchanged.
B.) C-GXXX Turn L/R heading XXX upon interception of V/JXXX cleared on course.
Most aircraft in highlevel airspace are able direct these days, with RNAV, direct to just about anywhere so long, as posted above, it is in the database.
