Twin Otter PPC...is this helpful?

timmyot · Post by **timmyot** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:53 am

I was wondering if anyone could help me out as to what they think I should do next. I am a commercial pilot (went through a college program...obtained a diploma). I have between 230-250 hours. I have my float rating with 25 hours on a C172 on floats. My total time has all been on a C172 and some on a C150 (wheels). I am going to be doing the Twin Otter (DHC-6) PPC course in Toronto through Flight Safety.....meaning I will have my multi and multi-IFR as well. With all of this and the Twin Otter PPC through Flight Safety, does anyone know of any companies that specifically have Twin Otters in their fleet? And if so, would you happen to know of employment opportunities through anyone for myself? I've looked around on the internet and just can't seem to find what I'm looking for. And are there any suggestions you have for me as to where you think I should go? Which route you think I should take? Should I be getting at least 50 hours on floats? With all of what I said I would have, what are my chances at landing at least a right seat? Just thought I'd get the advice of people already in the business or that have been? Any help and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Dog · Post by **Dog** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:24 am

You won't have a PPC because you need to be employed by a company to get a PPC. I suggest you do a little research before you spend that kind of money (no matter who's it is).

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:46 am

Dog wrote:You won't have a PPC because you need to be employed by a company to get a PPC. I suggest you do a little research before you spend that kind of money (no matter who's it is).

That's exactly what I was thinking... lol...

You can take your "ppc" to the caribean though, you might get hired there, but guys who were selling ppcs down there wanted a JAA license, maybe try the dives, maybe they'll take you as an F/O....

But if somoene does hire you in Canada, you'll be rich after a year, cause you'll be able to write a book... That's where the money's at....

timmyot · Post by **timmyot** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:57 am

Ya, I didn't mean that I'd have a PPC on the DHC-6. That's just how I've always referred to it as. Sorry about that. I meant I would have training on a DHC-6. (not sure how many hours exactly though) I'm sure you know of flight safety though. They deal with the high quality simulators. Apparently training through them is top of the line. Very recognized name. Companies like seeing training through them. So...forget I mentioned about having a PPC. I would have training on a DHC-6 through them. I'm in the middle of getting all the information about what exactly I would have if I fork over the 8 grand for the course. Again...any help as to what route you believe I should go (refer to qualifications in the above post) would be greatly appreciated. OH......by the way....I don't have any rich parents or long lost uncles or family members who've left me big amounts of money. The money I put in is all earned by myself (and mostly credit lines and debts at the moment)......but thank you for the advice. I'm not going to put the money in if I haven't researched everything...trust me. This is part of my research......asking you (whomever that may be) for suggestions and comments.

Dog · Post by **Dog** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:36 am

I don't believe that you will be able to do an initial instrument/multi with flightsafety in the sim. The nine day initial pilot course is meant for people already holding the ratings and does not meet the requirements of CARS 421.46. If they will teach you on the sim make sure you get a written letter from TC stating that they will accept the exact simulator you train on as a replacement for actual flying (I don't think they will).
As far as it getting you to the top of the pile... hard to say it will make any difference. Ask Just Curious, he works for a company that runs them. Any company that does hire you will need to go through thier full initial training regardless as you will have had no exposure to their SOPs.

Get the yearly Wings mag for a list of operators and equipment.

I would do a conventional multi IFR with a reutable place (all at night). And do a load of research on where to apply.

Good luck.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:28 pm

Timmyot, why pick the DHC6 if you have no idea of whom fly's them, or where to apply?

If your going to spend that kind of cash, don't you think some indepth research is in order first?

Also, in case you havent been told, buying a PPC is really frowned upon here in Canada.

Get a wings magizine (the annual charter directory issue) and start looking at it.

Cheers.

PS, I really think this is a troll...

av8tor_assrope · Post by **av8tor_assrope** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:57 pm

………uh-oh……call in the cavalry and launch the artillery. i give this thread 8 hrs before it’s locked

cheers

timmyot · Post by **timmyot** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:47 am

Actually, it is a PPC you end up coming out of the 9 day course at Flight Safety (this is in reference to what 'Dog' posted earlier on). Only being able to obtain a PPC through a company applies in the U.S, not in Canada. I was speaking with a CFI here in Sarnia yesterday and he clarified this. Mind you, I do agree with 'KAGS' response though..."why pick the DHC6 if you have no idea of whom fly's them, or where to apply?
If your going to spend that kind of cash, don't you think some indepth research is in order first?" I do need to remind you that I'm only asking questions here. This is a part of my "indepth research." I wanted to put this idea out there to hear what people that are in the business think. Getting responses that tell me to research in depth are kind of insulting. But again...that's alright, as long as everyone knows that I'm asking for help. I haven't paid out the money for this yet. And I do know, as 'KAG' also said, "Also, in case you havent been told, buying a PPC is really frowned upon here in Canada. " I do know it's frowned upon in Canada. I'm just weighing all my options. I am pretty new to all of this though (240 hours, just got done the college program, working on float rating/multi/multi-IFR).....I do have extremely low hours. And I am the type of person that would gladly work my ass off somewhere if that's what it took to step up. So I do appreciate the help and responses I've gotten so far. Thank you to all. If anyone else has any opinions as to what route they think I should go...let me know.

just curious · Post by **just curious** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:07 pm

check pms.

phillyfan · Post by **phillyfan** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:37 pm

"I am the type of person that would gladly work my ass off somewhere if that's what it took to step up"

Then go somewhere and work your ass off.

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:01 pm

phillyfan wrote: Then go somewhere and work your ass off.

Thats the BEST advice ever. Get out there and get working. Get on the dock or ramp at a reputable spot.. or somewhere obscure and you'll be in the right seat in no time!

Phillyfan.. you are THE man!

Frostbite · Post by **Frostbite** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:28 pm

Last time I was at Flight Safety I was informed at that time the DHC-6 Simulator they have was not certified to do PPC flight tests but only Multi -IFR Rides. The sim experience is good experience, but the Twin-Otter can be taught to anyone with good hands and feet.

Don’t waste your money. Your going to need it for rent when get your first job.

Windatmyback · Post by **Windatmyback** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:23 pm

Twin Otter PPC rides can be done on flight safety's Twin Otter simulator. Know of at least one company that does their CANADIAN PPC's in the simulator.

HavaJava · Post by **HavaJava** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:45 am

Recurrent PPCs can be done in the FS DHC-6 Sim, but not initial PPCs. The sim is a level B and can't fully simulate take-offs and landings.

aferokamosalic · Post by **aferokamosalic** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:56 am

i don't like it.

HavaJava · Post by **HavaJava** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:03 am

Welcome to AvCanada aferokamosalic!

Please continue to share your valuable opinions and feelings

EPR · Post by **EPR** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:02 pm

Save your money as beer is expensive up north,and I don't mean Northern Ontario!
Pack your Berkinstocks and Granola Bars in your VW and head North to Yellowknife.There you will find a few operators of DHC-6's who fly them on floats,wheels and skis.Get hired on thier dock or ramp and work hard for a year or two and you will get your PPC.You only need the 7 hour basic float endorsement,so save your hard earned cash to supplement your bad habits.

Beacon Final · Post by **Beacon Final** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:57 pm

timmyot wrote: I have between 230-250 hours. I have my...

Why dont you find out what you have in your log book first. I hope you don't ever say to a CP that you have 230 to 250 hours... 20 hour spread is a bit much, and makes you sound like a jackass. Not trying to be mean or funny. Just honest.

Narrow it down first... with in +/- 2 or 3 hours rounded off to the nearest 5. ie 145 hours.

Otherwise good luck....

Dog · Post by **Dog** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:53 am

I round my time off to the nearest thousand...

wha happen · Post by **wha happen** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:40 pm

quick boys, grab 'em and drag him to the field. Its sacrifice time. You sir are an asshole. Get off your lazy ass and bust it on a ramp, pay your dues and you'll be better off for it. No better way to make enimies than going where you are going.

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:15 pm

Naaa.

Timmy just needs a little more cowbell, then he'll be fine.

-istp

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:26 pm

Timmyot,
since you are sincere in this thread, if it's a DHC6 you want to fly, Kenn Borek Air in Calgary is the company for you.
Since JC PM'd you, I'm sure he filled you into the ins/outs of Borek.
Do they take low timers - yes. But guys that buy there way in, i'm not sure, I sincerly hope not.

If I were you I would get an instructor rating and get 1000 TT, if you can get some multi PIC even better. At that point you meet insurance mins for SPIFR, and if you have some multi mixed in there your really attrative for an FO spot on a turbine.
Or go swamp on the docs for a season. Work the ramp somewhere that has a variety of small planes that you could get on - Wasaya, NAC, Tindi,
to name a few.

Getting PIC time early makes for a easier and faster ATPL, and will help you get a future captain upgrade down the road as most contracts require some form of PIC. The more Multi PIC the better, so again, instructing has it's benifets.

Most important: have fun and enjoy the ride.

rightseatwonder · Post by **rightseatwonder** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:30 am

Kenn Borek
Westcoast air
Arctic sunwest
Transwest Air
Walstens Air service

ALL of these operators would require you to work the dock/ramp. Yes at times some may take on pilots with PPC's but in reality..they are using you... and consider you as such..temporary solution. It is not the best path to take.

Why not work somewhere with more than just dhc-6's, work the ramp dock, get on a 180 etc and work your way up. You'd be getting pic right away and not get stuck in the firstjob copilot PICtrap....

i have 4300 hrs on the twotter...some of the best flying ever...Canada all over the maldives etc...fun as hell. But there are ways to get into it if thats what you want to do that will serve you better. And buying a PPC (especially on credit) is asking for trouble.

after all that time on the twin..i am now a step back to take 2 foward because of the limitations dhc-6 flying has...if was to do it over, i would have left the dhc-6 at least a year earlier to move somewhere for APPLICABLE experience towards my ultimate goal of airline flying.

just something to think about
cheers

just curious · Post by **just curious** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:48 pm

As usual, it depends.

Companies may take on someone with a PPC if they need a driver to replace one who has just left.

Often though, replacement drivers do not know the SOPs of the company they are joining and are more work to fly with because their transfer PPC/reduced line indoc pushes that unfamiliarity onto the newer captains.

Taking on PPCed pilots is something that is to be avoided if possible when the transferee doesn't have operatiing experience on the type, merely the endorsement.

In the Otter world, taking the time to teach a new pilot how to dress, what stuff to take with them when they fly, how to load, and secure the goofy otter loads, soaks up a weeks worth of time for a new driver. If they arrive with a newly minted PPC, then the expectation is that they will know this stuff when they arrive. When they don't live up to expectations, their peer approval suffers.

40 Set&Indicated · Post by **40 Set&Indicated** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:53 pm

Then go somewhere and work your ass off.

Yah, some of us had to work to get to that position. Don't be an a-hole.

Twin Otter PPC...is this helpful?

Twin Otter PPC...is this helpful?

didn't mean PPC....meant training

Twin Otter PPC

20 hour spread