New pilot/atc licence format coming soon near you.

wingspan · Post by **wingspan** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:06 am

http://copanational.org/non-members/Hom ... tory95.htm

the new licence format must include secure photo identification along with a means of showing all licences held, medical certificates including renewal stamps, PPCs etc, in one document.

The new licences should be in the mail to existing licence holders some time in mid-2007.

this looks promising.

WS

dangerous · Post by **dangerous** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:25 am

A TC inspector recently told me that there has never been a problem with people falsifying the current paper pilot licenses. So my question is why change it? The article says it'll be cheaper, but I don't see how a passport type booklet is cheaper than a piece of paper. Maybe I'm missing something.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:37 am

This is progress? This is exactly what was used (passport format) back in the 1940's!

Why oh why can't Transport do what the FAA does, and what every province and state does for driver's licence: a plastic photo ID card with qualifications listed on it.

When the qualifications change, mail out a new card. Gosh, that's hard to understand.

Let me guess: some empire-building numbnuts at Transport is trying to take something very simple, and make it very complicated, so he can hire more people and get promoted up to a higher level of manager so that he can retire with a bigger pension, right?

Chop&Drop · Post by **Chop&Drop** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:56 am

Not only that but because it's got a photo, it expires every five years and you have to go to get your photo taken pay a fee then mail that to TC and most likely pay another fee.
Who wants to have to carry around a booklet rather than a couple pieces of paper! If they must re-do the licence format then I think that they should make it like the FAA's.

beechy · Post by **beechy** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:45 am

i hope they give a refund on the shinny new license holder i bought....seriously though i think this is a grand waste of time and money.... Even the plastic card idea, is it neccessary? no. Now you not only will line up to get your passport photo, drivers license photo, and health card photo updated, but your pilots license too...Can't they all share one damned photo, i can't get over how government agencies don't talk to one another.....BTW, another freakin line up, wasted time all to foil the plots of terrorists, but didn't they go about learning to fly legally so they'd have one too, to say nothing of them not needing one because they aren't really following the law anyways. I have never tried nor would i ever but are the paper ones that easy to falsify?......congrats to transport for wasting more of my time and probably increasing fee's.....which i am sure is next.

golden hawk · Post by **golden hawk** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:46 am

Lots of licences around the world are this format. I don't see what the big deal is, and having a photograph is a good idea.

Those spiffy wallets Aviation World sells won't be much use now, though.

beechy · Post by **beechy** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:53 am

Well i'll be sending the bill to transport......i just don't see a reson to change the format, its not going to do anything.

snag · Post by **snag** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:06 am

I think the passport format might mean a cost savings over the plastic card format. If you figure a new medical every year, a possibility of 2 rides a year for PPC recurrent training, and any other changes, you could get a new card more than 15 times in the 5 year validity period, as opposed to 15 endorsements on your one passport booklet.

Anyone that has tried to pull their radio license out of their spiffy plastic license wallet after a few years knows the disadvantage of ink on paper (by the way, they better include that damned radio rating on there too). And just because a TC guy said he's never heard of anyone forging a license, does not mean it's not a piece of cake to do and someone will not try sooner or later.

If getting a picture taken once every 5 years is a problem for you, you have issues.

I say GO with the program.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:23 am

never heard of anyone forging a license

Only time I've heard of anyone forging a licence was probably before you were born - an Air Canada pilot did an at-home conversion of his senior commercial (remember those?) to an airline transport. He simply could not pass the written exams.

Flew left seat for years on the forged licence. The feathers flew when it was discovered. He wrote the exams again, and this time he passed. This was around 1980. Continued flying for the rest of his career. I'm sure he's retired by now.

So, except for Air Canada pilots forging licences, there really isn't a problem with the existing paper ones.

trey kule · Post by **trey kule** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:53 am

Hedley wrote:

pilot did an at-home conversion of his senior commercial (remember those?) to an airline transport. He simply could not pass the written exams.

Perhaps I am wrong, but the exams for the Senior commercial were the ATR exams...if he had a SC it meant he wrote the exams.
There was a carrier pilot who did not have an instrument rating..dont believe he ever faked it though..just got caught one day and had to do the instrument ride.

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:11 pm

I have only ever been asked for my license by US Customs, and she got my FAA one anyway, and one dork in Macau who didn't believe the Canadian one was a license anyhow, so he got the FAA one too.

Another lousy, stinking bureaucratic money grab.

"Here's my pilot license; yes that's me without the beard; I think I'll fly the Boeing today."

Gimme a break.

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:42 pm

trey kule wrote:Hedley wrote:

pilot did an at-home conversion of his senior commercial (remember those?) to an airline transport. He simply could not pass the written exams.

Perhaps I am wrong, but the exams for the Senior commercial were the ATR exams...if he had a SC it meant he wrote the exams.
There was a carrier pilot who did not have an instrument rating..dont believe he ever faked it though..just got caught one day and had to do the instrument ride.

Same exams but lower pass grades for the Sr. Commercial.

rotorfloat · Post by **rotorfloat** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:42 pm

The last seminar I was at, there was a presentation about the new licenses, and all of the responses in the room were no different than here.

The idea of 'credit-card' type licenses lost favour as scanners/programmers would have to be issued to inspectors in the field, as well as any foreign nation that would want to verify the data within.

Endorsements/PPCs will be via a sticker placed in the appropriate page in the license. The stickers are supposed to be unique as well to prevent counterfeiting. Similar to the sticker used by microsoft for the XP cd-key that gets stuck to your tower or laptop I guess.

There really wasn't an answer, then, about including the radio license within the license. "That's Industry Canada's department" They said.

Lots of pages left over for address changes, medical stamps etc.

It would be nice to suggest that a plastic sleeve be included in the booklet for other loose papers you might also need to carry: TDG, Elementary Maintenance, AVOP, etc...

What I don't like is that each class of license is a different colour book. Commercial licences one colour, private and rec different colours as well. I have a private fixed-wing license, a glider license as well as commercial helicopter, which would mean 3 photographs, 3 books to carry around, 3 renewals, etc. Why not just another sticker on the inside? Their answer "To keep in line with ICAO".

I think it sure beats getting a new licence with every renewal or endorsement. Coffee stains seem to plague my licenses, as well, the creases seem to disentegrate and my medical has nearly separated into 4 separate sheets. I think my radio licence is blank, as all the ink has long worn off.

imfsub12 · Post by **imfsub12** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:59 pm

so how will I now carry my license in my wallet??? any idea.. its great that we are getting a nice new license.. you pay enough and my drivers license looks more fancy that cost me about $200!!!!!

Did TC think of these things. Like the way the FAA does it just another Credit Card type.. Instead of this BIG Passport type... (but they still could revamp it - I will wait and see)

AHHH more money for use to spend each year as the $55 processing fee isn't enough just to get your medical current.. after you pay your DOC...

well that my rant...

Meso · Post by **Meso** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:47 pm

I wonder how well the new licence will handle the washing machine?

My vote would go to the credit card type, they can put a sticker on it as well, just like the Outdoors card I have in my wallet.

can I please have a gold star teacher?

bobcat18 · Post by **bobcat18** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:08 pm

My Passport dried out just fine. Certianly better than my TC Licence or my cell phone.
Anyway if you have not noticed Transport's recent motto is "ICAO Compliant". So most of the changes you see now are to become ICAO compliant and align with the JAA-JAR-ICAO way of doing things.
That means different licence booklets for each licence, among other things like language testing.

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:16 pm

dangerous wrote:A TC inspector recently told me that there has never been a problem with people falsifying the current paper pilot licenses. So my question is why change it?

Saw it done once; or at least I assume it was forged since the licence was under what turned out to be an alias. I only found out about it when I got called in by the RCMP to make a statement regarding the individual's rental of an airplane for what turned out to be drug smuggling. So take your pick; he either forged it, or went through the trouble to get an ATPL under an alias. If the latter you can't fault the guy's long term planning.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:39 pm

Transport's recent motto is "ICAO Compliant"

Really? I do hope the news makes it as far as 4900 Yonge St - the luminaries there inform me that they are reneging as an ICAO signatory.

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:02 pm

Oh Great...............Now I have to go find some Veterinarian with his arm up a cows ass to sign my frickin photo.

This is the most stupid venture yet. I seem to remember that the Israeli Secret Service had been forging Canadian passports for years. As Hedley said, the plastic credit card ID would make far too much sense and if they were really paranoid, they could use Biometrics.

Turbofan · Post by **Turbofan** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:16 pm

Transport Canada motto also has a new look...

"We're not satisfied till you're not satisfied."

tb

Redneck_pilot86 · Post by **Redneck_pilot86** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:00 pm

A plastic credit card type licence would also hold up a whole lot better than a paper one when you fall of a friggin float

ST

Rudder Bug · Post by **Rudder Bug** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:31 pm

Redneck_pilot86 wrote:A plastic credit card type licence would also hold up a whole lot better than a paper one when you fall of a friggin float

ST

Good point Redneck_pilot86! LOL

I've got one too.

I know a Canuck guy running a fleet in South Pacific. He is now questioned by the Aussie Feds as if he ever had a real canadian or any CPL after a couple accidents.

I flew there and all was required for my license conversion was a medical, my original paper license with the endorsements and PPC's. I could have add whatever I wanted easily. Any type, any rating. But I didn't, of course! My turbine endorsement was done there and was real, because it exists out there.

TOGA Descent · Post by **TOGA Descent** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:09 pm

golden hawk wrote:Lots of licences around the world are this format. I don't see what the big deal is, and having a photograph is a good idea.

Those spiffy wallets Aviation World sells won't be much use now, though.

Almost ALL countries EXCEPT Canada, the US and Brazil are in this format.

TTJJ · Post by **TTJJ** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:44 am

I have had some experience with a paper to plastic transfer, so here is my 2 cents.

The form we all had to fill out was just a regular form with a 3X4 cm photo pasted to it which was later scanned by the powers that be. The form and processing were free.

This is a Brazilian licence. Front and back. The medical is still on paper.

As you can see, there are no validity dates on the licence. They are on the DAC (MOT) website for each pilot. This requires all Brazilian inspectors to carry a palm pilot with the whole database of pilots in it.

More problems arise when we go international. If we are ramped anywhere, the inspector must go to the DAC (MOT) website and call up our data. This is impractical, so we all carry a print out of the DAC website’s data on ourselves. We also carry printouts of FlightSafety’s data on our training.

All this is fine and dandy except that the printouts have no legal value. After all, what stops me from printing anything I like. We all agree that the foreign inspectors would be well within their rights to ground us awaiting proof of validity of our licences.

So far, (5 times: Italy, Switzerland, China, Russia, Chile) they have accepted the printouts and our word.

I hope you guys address these issues because they are real headaches.

jetpilot · Post by **jetpilot** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:27 am

Guys please!

I can see that nobody here work oversea i do now for 6 years i show my super Canadian License at many DCA and always the same answer!

How a major contry like Canada have license like this! where is your picture?
why you guys dont use the standard passport type!

I think is very good!

jet

New pilot/atc licence format coming soon near you.

New pilot/atc licence format coming soon near you.

wow

Good point

very good