Martin, could you enlighten us with you view on the Teplitsky hearing last month, the ALPA view was acpa wanted the crj's back and Teplitsky laughed them out of the hearing after sending some acpa law clerk out for coffee, the whole process was less than one hour, according to alpa.
I'm sure the truth lies somewhere.
Martin Tamme re: Teplitsky
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
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Martin Tamme
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According to the initial deal, ACPA had to get the equivalent new equipment at the mainline to offset the loss of every CRJ that went to Jazz.
The CRJs were going too fast, considering we weren't getting as much in return.
There was no argument from Teplitsky that Jazz was entitled to these CRJs. However, that was only part I of the grievance.
Part II, which has yet to be heard, will consist of Teplitsky settings up guidelines to give timeframes as to when AC has to get new replacement aircraft at the mainline.
Jazz & ALPA will not be in attendance for part II.
The CRJs were going too fast, considering we weren't getting as much in return.
There was no argument from Teplitsky that Jazz was entitled to these CRJs. However, that was only part I of the grievance.
Part II, which has yet to be heard, will consist of Teplitsky settings up guidelines to give timeframes as to when AC has to get new replacement aircraft at the mainline.
Jazz & ALPA will not be in attendance for part II.
Last edited by Martin Tamme on Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jazz and Alpa will not be there, yea right, something that affects us we'll be there, good luck though, seems that the 319's and 320's didnt leave as scheduled either, so that means a grievance for ALPA to get the EMJ's right.
Good luck, acpa's credibility with the CIRB (Reiner Bauer) and now Teplitsky, oh and guess who the arbitrator is for your 1% wage increase might be.
That arbitrator predicted this happening ten years ago.
Good luck, acpa's credibility with the CIRB (Reiner Bauer) and now Teplitsky, oh and guess who the arbitrator is for your 1% wage increase might be.
That arbitrator predicted this happening ten years ago.
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Martin Tamme
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Doug Stanley, President and CEO of the WHSCC in New Brunswick.exbengal wrote: and guess who the arbitrator is for your 1% wage increase might be.
http://www.enablelink.org/wcomp/nb.html
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Martin Tamme
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Rainer Bauer is no longer on the MEC. Of the present 13 ACPA MEC members, 9 were hired post Picher and are able to move on.
John Scott - MEC Chair - B767 F/O - DOH 1997
Luc Grignon - YUL Chair - EMJ Captain - DOH 1997
Serge Beaulieu - YUL V-Chair - EMJ Captain - DOH 1997
Jeff Blake - YYZ V-Chair - EMJ Captain - DOH 1998
Martin Tamme - YYZ V-Chair - A320 F/O - DOH 1998
Paul Strachan - YYZ V-Chair - A340 R/P - DOH 1999
Rob Weiser - YWG Chair - A320 F/O - DOH 1999
Craig Blandford - YWG V-Chair - A320 F/O - DOH 1998
Kevin O'Brien - YVR V-Chair - A340 R/P - DOH 1999
John Scott - MEC Chair - B767 F/O - DOH 1997
Luc Grignon - YUL Chair - EMJ Captain - DOH 1997
Serge Beaulieu - YUL V-Chair - EMJ Captain - DOH 1997
Jeff Blake - YYZ V-Chair - EMJ Captain - DOH 1998
Martin Tamme - YYZ V-Chair - A320 F/O - DOH 1998
Paul Strachan - YYZ V-Chair - A340 R/P - DOH 1999
Rob Weiser - YWG Chair - A320 F/O - DOH 1999
Craig Blandford - YWG V-Chair - A320 F/O - DOH 1998
Kevin O'Brien - YVR V-Chair - A340 R/P - DOH 1999
Martin, couldn't careless about who represents your mec and if they can move on, all I'm saying re: Bauer is that he's burned too many bridges at the CIRB regarding acpa, so untill the short guy retires or dies ...............good luck.
I see you didn't offer an opinion on the Airbuses, its all about credibility. When you lie it doesn't help.
Have a good weekend
I see you didn't offer an opinion on the Airbuses, its all about credibility. When you lie it doesn't help.
Have a good weekend
exbengal is nothing but a bitter windup merchant,if you go back in time you will see that all his posts are very agressive,bitter and are nothing more than an attempt to wind up Air Canada pilots.I would suggest that he not be given the time of day as he is not interested in the real facts,he just likes to spew alpa propaganda.
get a life exbengal.....or get l..d,but chill out
get a life exbengal.....or get l..d,but chill out
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bobcaygeon
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bbus, all I did was post facts, acpa lost infront of Teplitsky, Baurer has made an ass out of himself in front of the CIRB,(hence Keller) acpa lied about the Airbuses, and acpa lied about the wages on the emj 175's, so post fact's moron before you start with the name calling.
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Martin Tamme
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It's all about contractual language. In accordance with the Arbitration Settlement Agreement dated 17th June, 2003 (Appendix C-1 in the Collective Agreement), Jazz may maintain a fleet of 50 CRJ 100/200s made up as follows:
10 present fleet of CRJ-200s
15 CRJ-200 which AC has ordered
25 CRJ-100 in the mainline fleet, which shall be transferred to Jazz, subject to the conditions set forth in the Letter of Commitment #47
Teplitsky ruled last month that there is no denial that Jazz is entitled to the 25 CRJs. However, the conditions set forth in LOC 47 may or may not have been met, as well as the fleet and ASM guarantees in Article 1.09. This will be resolved in a subsequent arbitrational hearing.
Last month hearing only dealt with as to whether or not Jazz is entitled to the 25 CRJs, not whether or not other aspects of the Collective Agreement were met...
...and it's got nothing to do with the number of A320s on the property.
10 present fleet of CRJ-200s
15 CRJ-200 which AC has ordered
25 CRJ-100 in the mainline fleet, which shall be transferred to Jazz, subject to the conditions set forth in the Letter of Commitment #47
Teplitsky ruled last month that there is no denial that Jazz is entitled to the 25 CRJs. However, the conditions set forth in LOC 47 may or may not have been met, as well as the fleet and ASM guarantees in Article 1.09. This will be resolved in a subsequent arbitrational hearing.
Last month hearing only dealt with as to whether or not Jazz is entitled to the 25 CRJs, not whether or not other aspects of the Collective Agreement were met...
...and it's got nothing to do with the number of A320s on the property.
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thrust set
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Martin,
I have a question if might take the time. I was on the bus from T1 and heard some of our ACPA reps telling of a meeting with the ALPA dudes, when I pressed them on this they simply said that at the present time ACPA has a committee in place to "chat so to speak" but their is enough on our plate.
My brother who happens to be a Jazz CRJ skipper heard the same thing over on his side going so far to say that the Jazz guys have a new committee all set in place. Kind of a coincidence that both side have a committee in place at the very same time, is my thought.
Has Tepltsky said, "you two sides should sit the hell down and talk". Or have both side grabbed some common sense and made an effort.
Please lets not turn this into a conversation about some lawsuit.
I have a question if might take the time. I was on the bus from T1 and heard some of our ACPA reps telling of a meeting with the ALPA dudes, when I pressed them on this they simply said that at the present time ACPA has a committee in place to "chat so to speak" but their is enough on our plate.
My brother who happens to be a Jazz CRJ skipper heard the same thing over on his side going so far to say that the Jazz guys have a new committee all set in place. Kind of a coincidence that both side have a committee in place at the very same time, is my thought.
Has Tepltsky said, "you two sides should sit the hell down and talk". Or have both side grabbed some common sense and made an effort.
Please lets not turn this into a conversation about some lawsuit.
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tonysoprano
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Exbenny.
never give up. keep the faith. you will someday bring the evil empire down. you are a model for all future airmen. you are a true hero for all those who are climbing that slippery slope. this industry owes much to you. it's all about you bro. nice tan. oh it's not a tan?
never give up. keep the faith. you will someday bring the evil empire down. you are a model for all future airmen. you are a true hero for all those who are climbing that slippery slope. this industry owes much to you. it's all about you bro. nice tan. oh it's not a tan?
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The Hammer
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Teplitsky ruled last month that there is no denial that Jazz is entitled to the 25 CRJs. However, the conditions set forth in LOC 47 may or may not have been met, as well as the fleet and ASM guarantees in Article 1.09. This will be resolved in a subsequent arbitrational hearing.
As of June Jazz was below the 12% ASM of AC (10.8% i believe)
As of June Jazz was below the 12% ASM of AC (10.8% i believe)
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Martin Tamme
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It's not what you are thinking...thrust set wrote:Martin,
I have a question if might take the time. I was on the bus from T1 and heard some of our ACPA reps telling of a meeting with the ALPA dudes, when I pressed them on this they simply said that at the present time ACPA has a committee in place to "chat so to speak" but their is enough on our plate.
The present ACPA MEC wants to start a Professional Association of the likes what doctors & lawyers have. We want to have a body that represents all pilots on a universal level, but that each group remains autonomous at the local level.
We agree that as pilots, we have numerous principles in common, but our downfall is that we don't stick together. History shows that air operators have taken advantage of our disfunctional group, and as a result, our profession keeps spiralling downwards.
This problem is solely not limited to this country, but also globally. Globally, we have formed ASAP (Association of Star Alliance Pilots), which meets on a regular basis to deal with some of the problems that we individually face by sharing information.
Unfortunately, locally we have nothing. We want pilots to be respected in this country; we want pilots to have a voice with TC & in the government. If we don't do anything, our profession will go the way of the train engineer. We want to stop pilots from having to prostitute themselves out to the lowest bidder; working in unsafe environments; and forced to pay $30,000 just to have a job.
In order to accomplish this, we need all pilots associations in this country to come together. Whether it be Air Canada, Jazz, WestJet, CanJet, Air Transat, Skyservice,... we pilots have to start working together for the greater good of our profession.
The Jazz pilots recently had an election that resulted with a new MEC. The WestJet Pilots Association also recently elected a new president. CanJet recently unionised with a new president. Given that the players are all new, some people regard us as the next generation. We have no skeletons in the closet, and share no animosity towards each other. We are attempting to start working together for the greater good of the pilot's profession in this country.
Presently, we are taking baby steps to see what we can do to help pilots in general. The first project is to see if we can get our jumpseat back.
Last edited by Martin Tamme on Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Martin Tamme
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The following was recently written to us by Andy Wilson, who will be taking over the ACPA Presidency August 1st.
Think Globally, Act Locally
Reflecting on the recent ASAP Convention
I recently returned from the ASAP meeting in Edinburgh, more certain than ever in the need for pilot unity around the world.
ACPA is a founding member of the Association of Star Alliance Pilots. ASAP meets twice a year to share information on the activities of the STAR Alliance around the world. The reports we hear are often chilling.
We hear about the union-busting activities of tramp airlines such as Ryanair. We hear about airlines with multiple bases in multiple countries, designed to take advantage of the diversity of laws, to shield the employer from both governments and it’s employees. We hear about pilots flying the same aircraft as you and me, living out of their cars.
Then we learn that the tactics within the Star Alliance are sometimes no better. We hear from the SAS pilots. With units in Denmark, Norway and Sweden, they have historically bargained as one unit. Recently SAS presented them with an ultimatum that they must negotiate separately, country by country. Only through unity and threatened strike action were they able to maintain unified rates of pay, hours of work and seniority.
The story is similar at Swissair. Swissair has already endured bankruptcy and the usual round of concessions. But more recently they were told they must accept a further 30% reduction in wages and work rules, or their flying would be simply transferred to Lufthansa, another Star carrier. This has only been staved off by the Swissair Pilots Association and Vereinigung Cockpit (the Lufthansa pilots union) working hand in hand to present a common front.
These stories are repeated around the world, within Star, the other alliances and amongst the unaligned. Carriers and alliances are becoming trans-national, presenting opportunities for cherry-picking amongst labour laws, safety regulations, financial restrictions and bilateral and multilateral agreements.
Many predict that once global restrictions are relaxed, the three alliances will become the three big airlines of the future. If this occurs, the opportunities to whipsaw pilots across national and continental borders will expand exponentially. Pilot groups must rise to meet this global challenge on an equal footing. ASAP understands this challenge. The lesson is clear. Divided, we fall.
“The whole object of travel is not to set foot on foreign land; it is at last to set foot on one’s own country as a foreign land.”
– G. K. Chesterton
ASAP is a useful mirror in which to better see ourselves. The details of our experience in Canada have been unique, but the themes are universal.
Ten years ago, CALPA collapsed due to internal tensions which proved insurmountable. A constant stream of crises then assaulted our profession. The Single Employer proceedings, strikes, lawsuits, mergers, recessions, LCCs, 9-11, SARS and CCAA all focused our attention inwards and set ourselves against each other.
ACPA has risen to these challenges. But the resulting bunker mentality has rendered us vulnerable going forward. Our relationship with Jazz is a case in point. The conflicts of the past have become nothing but a sad historical relic. The only tangible result has been a race to the bottom in regional jet pilot salaries on both sides of the fence. This has of course exerted further downward pressure on narrowbody flying. For instance, we have actually had Embraers in our fleet for over 40 years. Except they used to be called DC-9s and B737s. The only beneficiary has been ACE.
ACPA was founded on the basis of principles we hold dear. A permanent state of war is not one of those principles. The current division within our own Air Canada family cannot serve us well in the future. Nor can the continued division of all pilots in Canada. We must do our part in confronting the world challenge by first getting our own house in order.
One way or another, we must begin, step by step, to reunite the pilot community in Canada.
Andy Wilson
Think Globally, Act Locally
Reflecting on the recent ASAP Convention
I recently returned from the ASAP meeting in Edinburgh, more certain than ever in the need for pilot unity around the world.
ACPA is a founding member of the Association of Star Alliance Pilots. ASAP meets twice a year to share information on the activities of the STAR Alliance around the world. The reports we hear are often chilling.
We hear about the union-busting activities of tramp airlines such as Ryanair. We hear about airlines with multiple bases in multiple countries, designed to take advantage of the diversity of laws, to shield the employer from both governments and it’s employees. We hear about pilots flying the same aircraft as you and me, living out of their cars.
Then we learn that the tactics within the Star Alliance are sometimes no better. We hear from the SAS pilots. With units in Denmark, Norway and Sweden, they have historically bargained as one unit. Recently SAS presented them with an ultimatum that they must negotiate separately, country by country. Only through unity and threatened strike action were they able to maintain unified rates of pay, hours of work and seniority.
The story is similar at Swissair. Swissair has already endured bankruptcy and the usual round of concessions. But more recently they were told they must accept a further 30% reduction in wages and work rules, or their flying would be simply transferred to Lufthansa, another Star carrier. This has only been staved off by the Swissair Pilots Association and Vereinigung Cockpit (the Lufthansa pilots union) working hand in hand to present a common front.
These stories are repeated around the world, within Star, the other alliances and amongst the unaligned. Carriers and alliances are becoming trans-national, presenting opportunities for cherry-picking amongst labour laws, safety regulations, financial restrictions and bilateral and multilateral agreements.
Many predict that once global restrictions are relaxed, the three alliances will become the three big airlines of the future. If this occurs, the opportunities to whipsaw pilots across national and continental borders will expand exponentially. Pilot groups must rise to meet this global challenge on an equal footing. ASAP understands this challenge. The lesson is clear. Divided, we fall.
“The whole object of travel is not to set foot on foreign land; it is at last to set foot on one’s own country as a foreign land.”
– G. K. Chesterton
ASAP is a useful mirror in which to better see ourselves. The details of our experience in Canada have been unique, but the themes are universal.
Ten years ago, CALPA collapsed due to internal tensions which proved insurmountable. A constant stream of crises then assaulted our profession. The Single Employer proceedings, strikes, lawsuits, mergers, recessions, LCCs, 9-11, SARS and CCAA all focused our attention inwards and set ourselves against each other.
ACPA has risen to these challenges. But the resulting bunker mentality has rendered us vulnerable going forward. Our relationship with Jazz is a case in point. The conflicts of the past have become nothing but a sad historical relic. The only tangible result has been a race to the bottom in regional jet pilot salaries on both sides of the fence. This has of course exerted further downward pressure on narrowbody flying. For instance, we have actually had Embraers in our fleet for over 40 years. Except they used to be called DC-9s and B737s. The only beneficiary has been ACE.
ACPA was founded on the basis of principles we hold dear. A permanent state of war is not one of those principles. The current division within our own Air Canada family cannot serve us well in the future. Nor can the continued division of all pilots in Canada. We must do our part in confronting the world challenge by first getting our own house in order.
One way or another, we must begin, step by step, to reunite the pilot community in Canada.
Andy Wilson
Last edited by Martin Tamme on Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:03 am, edited 4 times in total.
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thrust set
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"The conflicts of the past have become nothing but a sad historical relic."
"The current division within our own Air Canada family cannot serve us well in the future".
I have done some more digging and do believe that their is a potential of future meeting to happen between both groups. Andy Wilson being our soon to be new ACPA president does have a warm, cordial relationship with Brian Shurry the new MEC chair for Jazz who just happens to be the old Global solution chair for Jazz.
My prediction is we will hear more from both groups/committees in the near future.
"The current division within our own Air Canada family cannot serve us well in the future".
I have done some more digging and do believe that their is a potential of future meeting to happen between both groups. Andy Wilson being our soon to be new ACPA president does have a warm, cordial relationship with Brian Shurry the new MEC chair for Jazz who just happens to be the old Global solution chair for Jazz.
My prediction is we will hear more from both groups/committees in the near future.
