Bandaid:
You may not like this, but it is none the less true. I know of numerous good looking women who got jobs that their times and educations really don't match. I realize that this doesn't fit in with the current 'picture' that the social engineers are trying to sell us. But you can't argue with empirical evidence.
- 22 year old blond, slim, college educated (not an aviation program), 300 hrs, right seat on a King Air
- 24 yo slim brunette, well shaped, gets on right seat Cheyene, 300 hrs
.... and I can go on. I could name names, but that would prove little point. I'm willing to bet that I'm not the only one with similar stories. If you really want some good stories I could tell you about some of the stuff that went on the in military when I was in back in the early 90s.
The simple fact of the matter is that women have the advantage in the job market these days. Discrimination is still alive and well, but its white males that are on the wrong side of it. I know because I experienced it.
Before I started in the aviation industry I was a teacher. I got out of school in the mid-90s, right at the height of political correctness. There were teaching jobs for which I was qualified, but I was not allowed to apply. I was told point blank, "We are not accepting applications from white males". That was it. End of story. That's discrimination, and until you've had that happen to you, you don't know what you're talking about.
sexual harrassment, female pilots
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snaproll20
- Rank 7
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to Bandaid
Tks for the small voice of reason. It is a genuine study but seems to have appealed to the more purient nature of our 'fellow' aviators, some of whom seem to lose blood flow to the brain at the idea.
Maybe that is a hurdle for them.
Maybe that is a hurdle for them.
Those are your examples? Are you kidding me? Whoa! That is sheer and utter discrimination!mcrit wrote:- 22 year old blond, slim, college educated (not an aviation program), 300 hrs, right seat on a King Air
- 24 yo slim brunette, well shaped, gets on right seat Cheyene, 300 hrs
I don't disagree with you that preferential hiring exists some places (CMA), but a 22 year old and a 24 year old, getting FO jobs on <12500 equipment with little time is not really a big deal. There isn't enough bandwith on this site for me to list all the 20 something guys I know who have gotten FO jobs on turbine equipment with less than 300 hours. I am one of them infact. Your examples prove nothing.
Conjecture and speculation. The sky is in fact falling. I could say anything on here stated as fact and being pure B.S. So now I have to ask what is the crux of the complaint, that good looking women get good jobs or that you were beaten to the job by a woman? I stand by what I say, some of the comments here emulate your personalities and the attitudes would bear on your personality during an interview like a hugh ugly wart on your nose. Whatever.
Interpersonal skills, confidence, and self esteem are paramount in landing jobs these days. Pretty girls have the advantage sometimes, with the looks comes two of the three pretty easily, but looks alone would not neccesarily get them the job.
Even a C/P would be a fool to jeopardize his career over hiring a woman based on looks and physical attributes, not that it don't happen, some men tend to use the wrong head for their critical decissions.
Interpersonal skills, confidence, and self esteem are paramount in landing jobs these days. Pretty girls have the advantage sometimes, with the looks comes two of the three pretty easily, but looks alone would not neccesarily get them the job.
Even a C/P would be a fool to jeopardize his career over hiring a woman based on looks and physical attributes, not that it don't happen, some men tend to use the wrong head for their critical decissions.
Well, I guess I'm one of the butt-ugly ones then because I never got a job based on looks.
I worked my ass off up north and throughout my career. I never got any favoritism, in FACT.. one such operator (whom I won't ID) told me he wouldn't hire me. Why? Because I had a boyfriend that was a pilot yada yada...
Sorry some of you guys are bitter but the blame better rest on the employers lack of professionality.
This topic has been thrashed on here before. For you guys that are resentful, might I list off some of the GUYS I've known that have weaseled their way into the "old boys club" and got the promotions and the equipment?
It's everywhere.. male female doesn't matter. It's life and sometimes it really sucks.
I worked my ass off up north and throughout my career. I never got any favoritism, in FACT.. one such operator (whom I won't ID) told me he wouldn't hire me. Why? Because I had a boyfriend that was a pilot yada yada...
Sorry some of you guys are bitter but the blame better rest on the employers lack of professionality.
This topic has been thrashed on here before. For you guys that are resentful, might I list off some of the GUYS I've known that have weaseled their way into the "old boys club" and got the promotions and the equipment?
It's everywhere.. male female doesn't matter. It's life and sometimes it really sucks.
Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace. The soul that knows it not,knows no release from the little things; knows not the livid loneliness of fear, nor mountain heights where bitter joy can hear the sound of wings.
- Amelia Earhart
- Amelia Earhart
Bandaid:
The fact that you feel that you can make such broad and sweeping statements about people that you haven't met speaks volumes. I know quite a number of guys flying turbines as FOs. I haven't seen very many men with low times, at least not here in TO, maybe up North. I notice that you chose not to address the point I brought up about the government sanctioned discrimination that I described, but instead went for an Ad Hominem attack. Again, this is telling.
So, do you have an example of a woman of this generation being told that she can't apply for a job simply because she was a woman? And if you do, was that refusal upheld by the law?
Flybabe:
I never said that all female pilots lucked out like this. I have no doubt that alot of them worked their rear's off just like you. My only point is that this industry isn't stacked against women any more than its stacked against the rest of us.
Personally, I don't care who I'm flying with. Male, female, black, brown, purple. Makes no difference, as long as they know what they are doing. What really vexes me is when someone starts complaining about an 'ism' whenever something goes the way they don't want.
I certainly don't think that I have it any harder in the aviation industry becuase I'm a man, but I sure as hell don't have it any easier.
The fact that you feel that you can make such broad and sweeping statements about people that you haven't met speaks volumes. I know quite a number of guys flying turbines as FOs. I haven't seen very many men with low times, at least not here in TO, maybe up North. I notice that you chose not to address the point I brought up about the government sanctioned discrimination that I described, but instead went for an Ad Hominem attack. Again, this is telling.
So, do you have an example of a woman of this generation being told that she can't apply for a job simply because she was a woman? And if you do, was that refusal upheld by the law?
Flybabe:
I never said that all female pilots lucked out like this. I have no doubt that alot of them worked their rear's off just like you. My only point is that this industry isn't stacked against women any more than its stacked against the rest of us.
Personally, I don't care who I'm flying with. Male, female, black, brown, purple. Makes no difference, as long as they know what they are doing. What really vexes me is when someone starts complaining about an 'ism' whenever something goes the way they don't want.
I certainly don't think that I have it any harder in the aviation industry becuase I'm a man, but I sure as hell don't have it any easier.
mcrit,
It is an old topic that has been beaten to death so many times that it get tiresome. I was a school board trustee at one time and if what you described happened in our district and we found out about it, heads would roll.
I wasn't meaning to come off like I am trying to analyze anyone personality here but I question why someone would pitch this old topic towards the plate yet one more time unless he had a valid complaint, then why vent it here. Take it to higher athorities, complaining here is like taking a pee in a wet suit, it gives you a nice warm feeling, but no one notices it but you. I really don't understand the problem. In the end the good ones survive and the terrible ones flip burgers.
I think that since the beginning of our service the more noticeable favoritism has been towards relatives, I would hazard a guess that it is probably true in your field as well.
Anyhow, if I have offended I apologize.
It is an old topic that has been beaten to death so many times that it get tiresome. I was a school board trustee at one time and if what you described happened in our district and we found out about it, heads would roll.
I wasn't meaning to come off like I am trying to analyze anyone personality here but I question why someone would pitch this old topic towards the plate yet one more time unless he had a valid complaint, then why vent it here. Take it to higher athorities, complaining here is like taking a pee in a wet suit, it gives you a nice warm feeling, but no one notices it but you. I really don't understand the problem. In the end the good ones survive and the terrible ones flip burgers.
I think that since the beginning of our service the more noticeable favoritism has been towards relatives, I would hazard a guess that it is probably true in your field as well.
Anyhow, if I have offended I apologize.
mcrit -
You're absolutely right, not all of us lucked out like that. I worked for a company that hired:
- 19 yr. old slim brunette fresh out of Selkirk for F/O BE200
- 22 yr. old tall, slim brunette with low time also for F/O BE200
Guess what..
They're both guys.
The argument doesn't cut the mustard. I don't see the favoritism. There may be leniency on one front but I guarantee you it gets evened out in the end.
I agree with bandaid about peeing in the wetsuit
Complaining here does nothing.... but hey, it makes me feel better too!!
You're absolutely right, not all of us lucked out like that. I worked for a company that hired:
- 19 yr. old slim brunette fresh out of Selkirk for F/O BE200
- 22 yr. old tall, slim brunette with low time also for F/O BE200
Guess what..
They're both guys.
The argument doesn't cut the mustard. I don't see the favoritism. There may be leniency on one front but I guarantee you it gets evened out in the end.
I agree with bandaid about peeing in the wetsuit
Complaining here does nothing.... but hey, it makes me feel better too!!
Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace. The soul that knows it not,knows no release from the little things; knows not the livid loneliness of fear, nor mountain heights where bitter joy can hear the sound of wings.
- Amelia Earhart
- Amelia Earhart
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just curious
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On behalf of men over forty everywhere, let me say this:C-FOXY wrote: When it comes to harrassment in aviation....I have experienced it, and unfortunately it most often comes from men over the age of 40.
"Don't trouble your pretty little head about it dear, and say, isn't that a lovely flight suit you have on today...oops, I mean, yes, you're absolutely right
"-
flyinthebug
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