Springbank Air Training College

YYC001 · Post by **YYC001** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:29 am

I was not very impressed with quite a few aspects of this school during my brief time out at Springbank.
I found a high level of immaturity with staff members as well as shoddy and haphazard maintenance at all levels.
I believe that " we the customer" should be entitled to better than that offered at this organisation.
If anyone requires further details please feel free to post your questions.
I am in the process of contacting the necessary people at Transport with these concerns.

Switchfoot · Post by **Switchfoot** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:04 am

YYC001 wrote:I am in the process of contacting the necessary people at Transport with these concerns.

Good call. If you feel it's unsafe and your concerns go unheeded, then I say go for it! I have heard a few opinions about them as well from a few others who fly in the area. Good luck.

Switchfoot.

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:40 am

YYC001 wrote:I was not very impressed with quite a few aspects of this school during my brief time out at Springbank.
I found a high level of immaturity with staff members as well as shoddy and haphazard maintenance at all levels.
I believe that " we the customer" should be entitled to better than that offered at this organisation.
If anyone requires further details please feel free to post your questions.
I am in the process of contacting the necessary people at Transport with these concerns.

What the two accidents in two months didn't impress you? Boy you are hard to impress (Hint of Sarcasm)

YYC001 · Post by **YYC001** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:10 am

Accidents aside, I am sure TC will be looking at this all on their own.
There are other issues both safety and the way the place is run in general that need to be addressed.

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:59 am

Wow you sound like you had quite the experiance.

I'm kind of interested as to who you have decided to continue your training with. If you haven't I can PM you some suggestions.

Lurch

Nappy · Post by **Nappy** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:17 am

Good step in contacting TC, but don't get your hopes up that they will actually do anything about. For instance, Air Satellite is a charter company that is really sketchy, and after a couple of maintenance/pilot training accidents, well, they were still in business, not sure now but the point being, be patient, they are only bureaucrats after all

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:10 pm

Nappy wrote:Good step in contacting TC, but don't get your hopes up that they will actually do anything about. For instance, Air Satellite is a charter company that is really sketchy, and after a couple of maintenance/pilot training accidents, well, they were still in business, not sure now but the point being, be patient, they are only bureaucrats after all

You don't need to wait for that, With the compitition at YBW the info just needs to get out and the other schools and students will shut them down.

YYC001 · Post by **YYC001** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:53 pm

Was contacted by someone from the Springbank business association. If you could PM me again that would be great and perhaps leave a contact number this time.

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:39 am

Check your PMs

Fish · Post by **Fish** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:49 am

A quick look at their safetly record will tell anyone all they need to know. Glad to see you figured this out sooner rather than later.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:14 pm

Before you flame away at a school, ask yourself a few questions.
2 accidents in 2 months...
What type of accidents were they? Mechanical related? Student’s porposing down the rwy? Fatal stall/spin? Was an instructor on board for either?

What is there dispatch reliability? Do they often cancel your scheduled flights?
How about there pass/fail rate on PPL/CPL rides?
Why not hear from some past/current students.

You also can’t judge someone’s professionalism in a short period of time. Maybe the school has a laid back approach (which to some will seem unprofessional), not a stuck up elitist club like a few pretend to be.

I know nothing about this school, nor am I defending it. I just find were too quick to flame away on a company or person with only half the story.

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:04 pm

KAG wrote:Before you flame away at a school, ask yourself a few questions.
2 accidents in 2 months...
What type of accidents were they? Mechanical related? Student’s porposing down the rwy? Fatal stall/spin? Was an instructor on board for either?

What is there dispatch reliability? Do they often cancel your scheduled flights?
How about there pass/fail rate on PPL/CPL rides?
Why not hear from some past/current students.

You also can’t judge someone’s professionalism in a short period of time. Maybe the school has a laid back approach (which to some will seem unprofessional), not a stuck up elitist club like a few pretend to be.

I know nothing about this school, nor am I defending it. I just find were too quick to flame away on a company or person with only half the story.

They had an accident over a year ago student had an engine failure due to carb ice and landed in a river.

June, a student went 100' off the side of the rwy and plowed through 2-3 fence posts

Last month, T&Gs at Old Man Dam put the gear down on amphibs and flipped.

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:04 pm

Lurch wrote:

They had an accident over a year ago student had an engine failure due to carb ice and landed in a river.

June, a student went 100' off the side of the rwy and plowed through 2-3 fence posts

Last month, T&Gs at Old Man Dam put the gear down on amphibs and flipped.

I'm not defending them either since I've never set foot in the place. But how can the school be blamed for a carb ice incident? Either the student is going to remember his training and get the carb heat on right away and leave it on; or he'll panic and he won't. Nothing they can do about it from ten miles away.

Was there an instructor on board during the second incident? I've seen licenced pilots do dumber things than that.

Incident three, I'll have to grant you was a fuckup, but there but for the grace of god ....

D5GRVTY · Post by **D5GRVTY** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:29 pm

BTW the incident a yr ago was not due to carb ice. The engine failed for unknown reasons(with carb icing as as suspected cause). Since no one one hurt TSB did not do an investigation and the local AME figured carb icing was the easiest answer.

As for the recent state of affiars at the school I can't comment as it's been a while since I've been around that neck of the woods

D5

JULIETTE · Post by **JULIETTE** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:11 pm

Everyone jump on the bandwagon in school trashing!!!!

Keep in mind that all the other schools do not have perfect accident records. I seem to recall one of the other large schools in Springbank having an accident involving a plane crashing into the side of a mountain killing everyone on board, and then not too long afterwards a student taxied right through the wing of another aircraft at the same school.

The point is that people are learning how to fly and every now and then they make mistakes, no matter how well the school has trained them.

Lurch wrote: Incident three, I'll have to grant you was a fuckup, but there but for the grace of god ....

Just for the record that accident has little to do with the school aside from the aircraft doing training under their Operating certificate. It was not one of their instructors who was doing the training, in fact none of them ever even flew that aircraft. It just so happened that they made the wrong business choice by allowing a float training operation to be operated under their name.

Back to the matter of the initial post.... I have done a lot of training with SATC (as well as other schools) and feel the instruction I received was the best compared to the other schools. I would say that the staff have a very "playful" nature but when it came time to do actual training they were always more than professional, in fact that is one of the things that attracted me to SATC. Flight training for most is supposed to be fun and enjoyable.

YYC001 · Post by **YYC001** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:28 pm

Playful or pure immature. Pornography on view to paying customers and derogotary comments made within earshot of the same customers.
The float plane accident needs further looking at as there was indeed a member of staff on board. Theres a difference between playful and plain indecency.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:28 pm

" It just so happened that they made the wrong business choice by allowing a float training operation to be operated under their name. "

From this are we to understand that float training is something beyond their ability to conduct?

LT · Post by LT » Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:15 am

KAG wrote:
You also can’t judge someone’s professionalism in a short period of time. Maybe the school has a laid back approach (which to some will seem unprofessional), not a stuck up elitist club like a few pretend to be.

others said wrote:playful

Think you get that at all the schools with 18-21 year old instructors trying to build time.

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:54 pm

Can all three accidents be blamed on the school? No, but try explaining that to the insurance company. It's odd that the only accidents at YBW in the last year are all from the same school.

I don't know about the internal workings or personally know the instructors but I see their A/C all the time and they are the worst flown A/C at YBW.

D5 is that you GH?

It's funny before the Dam accident they were permoting their float rating even on this web site there was talk about it. All of a sudden there is an accident and they try to seperate themselves from the A/C and training.

As for viewing porn at work, I don't care how old they are or where they work I would fire them instantly. There is no place for this behavour at any place of business aviation or not, no excusses.

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:55 pm

YYC001

Any thoughts yet or still deciding which route to take.

PM me Lurch