I was contact by an Inspector last week regarding an incident that took place in January; WHAT SHOULD I DO; I did return his phone call and sounded friendly and said that he just wants to TRY and close my case as soon as possible; he asked me to write in via fax detailing what happened on the flight;
I have heard of some stories which are not comforting through friends and wanted to find out what would be the best course of action;
any advise would be appreciated!!!!
What to do when TC Inspector Calls???
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
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Out of Control
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motherfokker
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Your best bet is to do as you did - contact them back righta away and find out exactly what they want. Get it in writing if you can. If you don't already know (ie you declared an emergency and its been routed through the official channels) find out what brought the matter to their attention and what kind of resolution are they looking for (explanation, general ass-covering paper trail, lynching, reason why they shouldn't violate you etc.)
Before you put anything on paper, check the CARS and any other applicable regulations very carefully to ensure your detailed actions/observations/written statement is/are within the law. If the incident was a serious one, its not a bad idea to consult with a lawyer before submitting a written statement. Proof-read very carefully and consult with a neutral party for a second opinion.
Any writtn communication with TC is guaranteed to be kept on file for a very long time. However, it is important not to be completely guided by paranoia. Try to temper caution with good sense and arm yourself by being familiar with the regulations and standards you are expected to uphold. If you do all this and are not in the wrong, you have nothing to be afraid of.
Good luck,
Snoopy
Before you put anything on paper, check the CARS and any other applicable regulations very carefully to ensure your detailed actions/observations/written statement is/are within the law. If the incident was a serious one, its not a bad idea to consult with a lawyer before submitting a written statement. Proof-read very carefully and consult with a neutral party for a second opinion.
Any writtn communication with TC is guaranteed to be kept on file for a very long time. However, it is important not to be completely guided by paranoia. Try to temper caution with good sense and arm yourself by being familiar with the regulations and standards you are expected to uphold. If you do all this and are not in the wrong, you have nothing to be afraid of.
Good luck,
Snoopy
“Never interrupt someone doing something you said couldn’t be done.” Amelia Earhart
In the business world, the rearview mirror is always clearer than the windshield...W. Buffett-
Cat Driver
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Snoopy, Snoopy what has happened to you?
Having done nothing wrong means nothing if they decide you need a lesson taught to you, fairness is a word some of them do not even come close to understanding.
Taking such such well meant advice as Snoop just posted, can really get you in deep trouble.
You should never, never talk to any TC enforcement person without legal council, your career can be badly damaged by giving out more than is required by law.
You are required to produce certain documents on demand, ( produce does not mean hand them to any inspector, produce means show them. ) you have the right to remain silent until you have legal council.
Answering any question on the phone is stupid, doing it on paper is beyond stupid.
Anyone who thinks that TC enforcement inspectors can be trusted would be better off in another line of work.
Cat
Having done nothing wrong means nothing if they decide you need a lesson taught to you, fairness is a word some of them do not even come close to understanding.
Taking such such well meant advice as Snoop just posted, can really get you in deep trouble.
You should never, never talk to any TC enforcement person without legal council, your career can be badly damaged by giving out more than is required by law.
You are required to produce certain documents on demand, ( produce does not mean hand them to any inspector, produce means show them. ) you have the right to remain silent until you have legal council.
Answering any question on the phone is stupid, doing it on paper is beyond stupid.
Anyone who thinks that TC enforcement inspectors can be trusted would be better off in another line of work.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
In all fairness to MOT, they have been very resaonable to me regarding an infraction. I simply wrote a registered letter explaining my version of the event and the case was dropped. Play hardball, and they WILL win....
IMHO
IMHO
...Seems they are going to remove the axe and the control column from the cockpits for security reasons.
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Cat Driver
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Redwine:
So you are advising people to expose themselves to possible unfair prosecution based on your experience?
Do you really believe that there are no enforcement people who abuse their authority?
Cat.
So you are advising people to expose themselves to possible unfair prosecution based on your experience?
Do you really believe that there are no enforcement people who abuse their authority?
Cat.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Notta Simfalt
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Sometimes, if it's something simple like an altitude bust for example, they have the option of closing the case over the phone. If it's something you know they have you on, and the worst that could happen is a fine, you may be better off being polite and getting off. For more severe accusations I would get legal advice. ALPA dues get you a free lawyer.
I am sure MOST people at MOT are reasonable and fair. (That has just been with my own personal experiences). Sure, there are and always will be bad apples in the bunch who abuse powers etc, which is sad. All I meant to say is that if the gentleman/woman in question here knows what he/she did or did not do was right and in the name of the game of air safety, I am sure he/she will do just fine. Just state the facts, and if you have a good conscience, you will be OK. Is it really worth all the hassle of getting more people involved? I 'm sure the man at MOT really just wants to close the case and move on. If you screwed up, well then take it like a man, face the music and move on. This is just my own opinion, don't forget. If I had a clear conscience about a situation and a good reasonable explanation, I would see no reason to post a question on here regarding dealing with MOT,... unless I knew I was in the wrong and was looking for ideas to get out of the situation..... :D (No offence CAT. I'm sure you are quite justified in your dealings with MOT)
By no means am I an expert on the subject though, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
Good Luck and fly safe!!
By no means am I an expert on the subject though, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
Good Luck and fly safe!!
...Seems they are going to remove the axe and the control column from the cockpits for security reasons.
Just a thought here.....
You know those Ex-Copper folks? They are retired police officers who now lend their services to help drivers get out of tickets, fines, etc... They are good because they know the law and the tricks.
Does anyone know an Ex-MOT that can do / does the same thing? It might be worth looking into.
You know those Ex-Copper folks? They are retired police officers who now lend their services to help drivers get out of tickets, fines, etc... They are good because they know the law and the tricks.
Does anyone know an Ex-MOT that can do / does the same thing? It might be worth looking into.
Cat, did you actually read my post?????
Anyway, like all advice, its plenty and its free and you're not obligated to use it. If you want good advice, get a lawyer.
And for the record, Samolin's post is a very vague description of his/her situation. No mention is made about enforcement, or about the seriousness of the supposed "incident". If you walk into every minor situation with Transport armed with a big stick, a lawyer and ignorance of the laws both sides are expected to adhere to, your future contact with TC will likely by rocky. Bring out the big guns for the big battles, for the little battles use water pistols.
Cheers,
Snoopy
Anyway, like all advice, its plenty and its free and you're not obligated to use it. If you want good advice, get a lawyer.
And for the record, Samolin's post is a very vague description of his/her situation. No mention is made about enforcement, or about the seriousness of the supposed "incident". If you walk into every minor situation with Transport armed with a big stick, a lawyer and ignorance of the laws both sides are expected to adhere to, your future contact with TC will likely by rocky. Bring out the big guns for the big battles, for the little battles use water pistols.
Cheers,
Snoopy
“Never interrupt someone doing something you said couldn’t be done.” Amelia Earhart
We've been through this before....BUT, in case you missed it:
1. TC is NOT your friend...they are NOT there to help you.
2. NEVER admit ANYTHING, EVER!!!
3. Dont return their calls.
4. Put NOTHING in writting...EVER.
5. There's a river called "Da Nile"...spend time on this river.
6. Ignore the "Snoop" on this one, and listen to the "Cat"
Remember, they're in the business to nail your sorry ass..it's true..dont let them use anything you say against you. You're not a lawyer, and unless you stayed in a Hoilday Inn Express last night, dont act like one.
And, Redwine....you're real new to this, arnt ya! What you did could have really jumped up and screwed ya. NEVER PUT ANYTHING IN WRITTING!!
1. TC is NOT your friend...they are NOT there to help you.
2. NEVER admit ANYTHING, EVER!!!
3. Dont return their calls.
4. Put NOTHING in writting...EVER.
5. There's a river called "Da Nile"...spend time on this river.
6. Ignore the "Snoop" on this one, and listen to the "Cat"
Remember, they're in the business to nail your sorry ass..it's true..dont let them use anything you say against you. You're not a lawyer, and unless you stayed in a Hoilday Inn Express last night, dont act like one.
And, Redwine....you're real new to this, arnt ya! What you did could have really jumped up and screwed ya. NEVER PUT ANYTHING IN WRITTING!!
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Cat Driver
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Hi Doc, Wave
Snoopy my dear friend, I know that you mean well however if you examine your own caution regarding TC taking revenge against a pilot for refusing to possibly incrimminate her / him self by offering information not required by law then you are stating that TC will unjustly punish you.
You can't have it two ways Snoop, if you are in danger of retaliation for refusing to offer information not lawfully required then you are admitting they are corrupt.
Hows the dog doing, and are you still flying my favourite airplane C-FTBD?
Cat.
Snoopy my dear friend, I know that you mean well however if you examine your own caution regarding TC taking revenge against a pilot for refusing to possibly incrimminate her / him self by offering information not required by law then you are stating that TC will unjustly punish you.
You can't have it two ways Snoop, if you are in danger of retaliation for refusing to offer information not lawfully required then you are admitting they are corrupt.
Hows the dog doing, and are you still flying my favourite airplane C-FTBD?
Cat.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
What department was the inspector from? Is he enforcement, safety systems, or something else.
If he wants your side in writing, I suspect enforcement. If that's the case, see a lawyer before you say or write anything. NOBODY on this board fully understands what they are talking about with regard to your rights and responsibilities versus those of the TC inspector. It all falls under the umbrella of "administrative law," the rules of which are much different than criminal law.
Administrative law is governed by common, or case, law for the most part, and the principles of fundemental justice. The only way you can know the "rules" of the process is to have a thorough understanding of previous federal and supreme court rulings in similar cases.
Simply put, the TC inspector may be a nice guy and just looking to close the file, he may honestly have no idea where it will go at this point, or he may be setting you up to make a confession to expidite his filing charges against you. You have know way of knowing what his intentions are without the help of good legal advice.
Take my advice as you see fit, but do so with the knowlege that I work in the criminal and administrative justice systems, and have both prosecuted and adjudicated hundreds of cases.
Good Luck.
If he wants your side in writing, I suspect enforcement. If that's the case, see a lawyer before you say or write anything. NOBODY on this board fully understands what they are talking about with regard to your rights and responsibilities versus those of the TC inspector. It all falls under the umbrella of "administrative law," the rules of which are much different than criminal law.
Administrative law is governed by common, or case, law for the most part, and the principles of fundemental justice. The only way you can know the "rules" of the process is to have a thorough understanding of previous federal and supreme court rulings in similar cases.
Simply put, the TC inspector may be a nice guy and just looking to close the file, he may honestly have no idea where it will go at this point, or he may be setting you up to make a confession to expidite his filing charges against you. You have know way of knowing what his intentions are without the help of good legal advice.
Take my advice as you see fit, but do so with the knowlege that I work in the criminal and administrative justice systems, and have both prosecuted and adjudicated hundreds of cases.
Good Luck.
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TenForTwelve
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I got a call from enforcement once. I won't go into the details of my mistake, but suffice it to say it was a minor infraction, inadvertent and unintentional and all that. I had pretty much the same conversation, wanted me to write up my side of the story and so on. The inspector outlined the whole process for me, including the action that would likely be taken, and on the whole, he was friendly and helpful. I got a letter some months later stating that given my explanation, TC was choosing not to take further action. I know that some inspectors are pricks, but apparently not all of them are. I was also informed that if there is a record of infractions on your file, you can apply to have them removed after 2 years if there are no further infractions. Not sure if this helps, but take it for what it's worth.
Like Benwa said, the problem is that you do not know who you are dealing with. In some cases it is far better to genuflect and show the proper penitent attitude. In other cases this is career suicide. Try to figure out what sort of person you are dealing with before saying anything. If they sound reasonable, then the best bet may be being reasonable in return. But if they are full of bluster and baloney, you are in for a nightmare no matter what you do.
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Cat Driver
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thx for all the feedback....
Since I do not know if the TC Inspector is a nice guy or just a bad apple in a bunch.....I will take the safer route and consult with the lawyer...
if anyone knows of any good Avaition Lawyers in Toronto Area....let me know.....
thx again for all the help...
Since I do not know if the TC Inspector is a nice guy or just a bad apple in a bunch.....I will take the safer route and consult with the lawyer...
if anyone knows of any good Avaition Lawyers in Toronto Area....let me know.....
thx again for all the help...
qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq
Last edited by A.W. on Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My Bud the Cat
Count me in the . & Doc. Transport does NOT have your best interests at heart - you can count on that.
It is a fact that anything you say to them can be used against you. You are not obligated to talk to them, so don't.
I think I know where A.W.'s pension is coming from, and it's sure not the private sector.
It is a fact that anything you say to them can be used against you. You are not obligated to talk to them, so don't.
I think I know where A.W.'s pension is coming from, and it's sure not the private sector.
