Hey all,
Got a possible interview with Georgian in Oct.
Just wondering if anyone knows if they are interviewing for Captain on 1900 or if quick upgrade to Captain.
Haven't talked to the CP yet. Waiting for his call
Any info welcome!
Georgian Interview and Upgrade
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore
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Captain Jack
- Rank 1
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- Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:26 pm
- Location: too far from SNA
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Captain Jack
- Rank 1
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:26 pm
- Location: too far from SNA
Thanks for the quick reply V1!
Don't worry I won't embarrass myself. Heard through second hand info that they were looking for DEC, or quick upgrade to Capt. Was just looking for info. I know for sure that CMA has hired DEC, or in 3 months Capt and if not then pay as Capt after 3 mos.
However I'm old enough to know better. It's a pilot market right now, and have had several offers in the last few weeks. Nothing wrong with asking questions and trying to not waste their time if I'm not interested. Just want to make the right decision to better my career.
On a side note, at my current company the CP did 10 resume calls, and after chating about the company he got 9 no-thank you's, and a maybe. Market is just to hot out west right now for higher time guys!
Don't worry I won't embarrass myself. Heard through second hand info that they were looking for DEC, or quick upgrade to Capt. Was just looking for info. I know for sure that CMA has hired DEC, or in 3 months Capt and if not then pay as Capt after 3 mos.
However I'm old enough to know better. It's a pilot market right now, and have had several offers in the last few weeks. Nothing wrong with asking questions and trying to not waste their time if I'm not interested. Just want to make the right decision to better my career.
On a side note, at my current company the CP did 10 resume calls, and after chating about the company he got 9 no-thank you's, and a maybe. Market is just to hot out west right now for higher time guys!
You could have a few thousand hours on the 1900, and you'll still wait your turn.
Georgian is unionized and there is no shortage of F/Os who meet the requirements.
Currently the most junior captian has about a year in the company.
Good luck with the interview if you decide to go for it.
Georgian is unionized and there is no shortage of F/Os who meet the requirements.
Currently the most junior captian has about a year in the company.
Good luck with the interview if you decide to go for it.
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JohnnyHotRocks
- Rank (9)
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- Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:18 am
I have a friend who know's somebody that works at Georgian and apparently most of the F/O's don't have enough time on type, don't have an ATPL or have failed their upgrade sim eval.
The few remaining are raging alcoholics or women, neither of which are upgradeable.
You should go captain within weeks if you get in.
The few remaining are raging alcoholics or women, neither of which are upgradeable.
You should go captain within weeks if you get in.
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flynbutcher
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- Location: 867-5309
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Handsome B. Wonderful
- Rank 2
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- Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:23 am
- Location: YYZ
Stinky,
You are a real Moron!
RE: GGN
Great place to work, upgrades within a year. Only problem is weither you are a 1900 or a caravan driver, you are mixed within the seniority list, so when a van driver upgrades to the 1900, he goes ahead of you if he was hired before you (even if you have 1000 hrs on type) and when time comes for upgrades, if the guy/girl had time to build 500 hours on type, they then upgrade before you do....
that is how you don't gain seniority at GGN...you could be here a year and still ride bottom and have a crappy sked.
Otherwise, a nice operation.
You are a real Moron!
RE: GGN
Great place to work, upgrades within a year. Only problem is weither you are a 1900 or a caravan driver, you are mixed within the seniority list, so when a van driver upgrades to the 1900, he goes ahead of you if he was hired before you (even if you have 1000 hrs on type) and when time comes for upgrades, if the guy/girl had time to build 500 hours on type, they then upgrade before you do....
that is how you don't gain seniority at GGN...you could be here a year and still ride bottom and have a crappy sked.
Otherwise, a nice operation.
Hab It,
I take it you are one of the sensitive van drivers>...
, if you actually read my post properly...you will note that I don't say 1900 guys are ahead of van guys but there is a mixed SENIORITY LIST (get it?)
When you are on the van there is a different seniority list for the van and there is one for the 1900..so when the van guy upgrades to the 1900 he bumps the 1900 guy....leaving no chance to the 1900 guy to increase seniority: in that case upgrades to capt are affected and the schedule sucks for a long time.
So yes you are right, the van driver was always ahead within the company, but not on equipment/experience
Now, again, don't be so sensitive, I understand the van driver has nothing to do with it and it is a problem with managment and the way it was decided. Union tried to change it a few years ago but not enough guys showed up.
I actually think it is funny cause when a guy/girl gets direct entry FO1900, some van drivers will be upset..but when the van driver upgrades, then their seniority is higher anyway....hum,....
I just think poeple trying to join GGN should know about that because you may sit bottom seniority a while....that is all...
Cheers
I take it you are one of the sensitive van drivers>...
, if you actually read my post properly...you will note that I don't say 1900 guys are ahead of van guys but there is a mixed SENIORITY LIST (get it?)When you are on the van there is a different seniority list for the van and there is one for the 1900..so when the van guy upgrades to the 1900 he bumps the 1900 guy....leaving no chance to the 1900 guy to increase seniority: in that case upgrades to capt are affected and the schedule sucks for a long time.
So yes you are right, the van driver was always ahead within the company, but not on equipment/experience
Now, again, don't be so sensitive, I understand the van driver has nothing to do with it and it is a problem with managment and the way it was decided. Union tried to change it a few years ago but not enough guys showed up.
I actually think it is funny cause when a guy/girl gets direct entry FO1900, some van drivers will be upset..but when the van driver upgrades, then their seniority is higher anyway....hum,....
I just think poeple trying to join GGN should know about that because you may sit bottom seniority a while....that is all...
Cheers
This seniority topic has been beaten to death at Georgian. It is the only flying job that I have heard of that allows you to hold seniority on an aircraft that you might not have the qualifications to fly. CPL, 1000 hrs TT, Group 3 Instrument Rating will get you a job on the van and seniority spot at GGN. GGN mins. for the 1900 are 2000hrs, ATPL(or IATRA), etc.
There are no DECs at GGN and upgrades require five hundred hours on type. It doesn't matter though if you have 6000hrs or 500hrs on type - seniority will always trump.
LFMN is right - be ready to wait for the upgrade and a long ride at the bottom of the list. It is only fair to be warned.
There are no DECs at GGN and upgrades require five hundred hours on type. It doesn't matter though if you have 6000hrs or 500hrs on type - seniority will always trump.
LFMN is right - be ready to wait for the upgrade and a long ride at the bottom of the list. It is only fair to be warned.
Sounds to me like some bitter non van drivers at the bottom of the seniority list!! GET IT!!
Every one who is hired at GGN is made aware of the situation with the seniority list during the interview and yet people still take the job and then have the nerve to complain about it after they are hired!! Yes they did try to change it a few years ago and I was one of the many current and former Van drivers in attendance to say that it has its place at GGN. To bad only a few (meaning less than about 6 of you bitter people showed up! (not much support!)) and almost 30 or more former and current Van drivers showed up!
The company was build from the ground up with the caravan, the guys and girls flying the van work hard and deserve everything they get, they are not coming from another company to fly the 1900, why do you hate them so? You knew everything up front when you were hired so get over it!!
Every one who is hired at GGN is made aware of the situation with the seniority list during the interview and yet people still take the job and then have the nerve to complain about it after they are hired!! Yes they did try to change it a few years ago and I was one of the many current and former Van drivers in attendance to say that it has its place at GGN. To bad only a few (meaning less than about 6 of you bitter people showed up! (not much support!)) and almost 30 or more former and current Van drivers showed up!
The company was build from the ground up with the caravan, the guys and girls flying the van work hard and deserve everything they get, they are not coming from another company to fly the 1900, why do you hate them so? You knew everything up front when you were hired so get over it!!
Hab it-
I spent six years at GGN and I am well aware of the situation. The meeting they held to vote on the change failed for two reasons. First of all it was to implement a change that would not have been retroactive so the current 1900 guys/gals had very little to gain from the proposed change. Secondly, and much more to the point, the meeting was held on a Saturday night when ALL of the van guys were off and could attend the meeting. The people who really felt there should be a change were working and could not attend because they DID NOT HAVE THE SENIORITY to hold weekends off!
I know many of van guys feel that they worked hard but under the current contract this is simply not the case. Is it the hard life to fly 2-6 hours, sleep in a hotel all day, have almost every weekend off, work 8-15 days a month, live in YYZ and get paid more than the lowly DE 1900 FO who has twice the experience? That lowly DE 1900FO probably had the exact opposite lifestyle - slept 2-6 hours, worked all day out B-F nowhere, had no weekends off, had barely any days off, received a raise to start as a level one GGN FO, and was hired to do a job that the van driver was not qualified to do!
Say what you want but the system is flawed. By your way of thinking the 30 year associate of a company should be automatically be made CEO of the company just because he has been there longest. There were times at GGN when a 2500hr TT Captain was flying with 4000 hr time-on-type FO! I'm long gone from GGN but I still think the system should be changed for those uninformed direct entry FO's.
Until such a change is implemented it is only fair to warn the unaware.
I spent six years at GGN and I am well aware of the situation. The meeting they held to vote on the change failed for two reasons. First of all it was to implement a change that would not have been retroactive so the current 1900 guys/gals had very little to gain from the proposed change. Secondly, and much more to the point, the meeting was held on a Saturday night when ALL of the van guys were off and could attend the meeting. The people who really felt there should be a change were working and could not attend because they DID NOT HAVE THE SENIORITY to hold weekends off!
I know many of van guys feel that they worked hard but under the current contract this is simply not the case. Is it the hard life to fly 2-6 hours, sleep in a hotel all day, have almost every weekend off, work 8-15 days a month, live in YYZ and get paid more than the lowly DE 1900 FO who has twice the experience? That lowly DE 1900FO probably had the exact opposite lifestyle - slept 2-6 hours, worked all day out B-F nowhere, had no weekends off, had barely any days off, received a raise to start as a level one GGN FO, and was hired to do a job that the van driver was not qualified to do!
Say what you want but the system is flawed. By your way of thinking the 30 year associate of a company should be automatically be made CEO of the company just because he has been there longest. There were times at GGN when a 2500hr TT Captain was flying with 4000 hr time-on-type FO! I'm long gone from GGN but I still think the system should be changed for those uninformed direct entry FO's.
Until such a change is implemented it is only fair to warn the unaware.
ok, Hab It, you are kind of funny with your "GET IT" all the time....I feel like I am trying to argue with a 15 year old...well maybe i am
No matter what you will say, Van drivers work hard and the 1900 drivers workED hard and still do work hard get to that point too...
Like "been used" I am gone from GGN too, this was one of the reasons.
Now to set the record straight, during the interview (at least mine), they mentionned a seniority system, but I didn't say the caravan guys would hold it transitioning to the 1900.
At the end of the day man.... no I don't get it!!!! and I probably won't buddy
There should be a system (some kind of happy medium) where everybody gets some seniority over time because although you said the Van guys built that company from the ground up, this company would NOT exist anymore without the DE 1900 FO cause most van drivers don't qualify YET (cause you don't have the time)
So once again ,I am just trying to tell poeple that wanna join GGN that it is a GREAT company to join especially on the 1900, but just beware it will be a long ride at the bottom....
So please no more "get it" but more arguments..
No matter what you will say, Van drivers work hard and the 1900 drivers workED hard and still do work hard get to that point too...
Like "been used" I am gone from GGN too, this was one of the reasons.
Now to set the record straight, during the interview (at least mine), they mentionned a seniority system, but I didn't say the caravan guys would hold it transitioning to the 1900.
At the end of the day man.... no I don't get it!!!! and I probably won't buddy
There should be a system (some kind of happy medium) where everybody gets some seniority over time because although you said the Van guys built that company from the ground up, this company would NOT exist anymore without the DE 1900 FO cause most van drivers don't qualify YET (cause you don't have the time)
So once again ,I am just trying to tell poeple that wanna join GGN that it is a GREAT company to join especially on the 1900, but just beware it will be a long ride at the bottom....
So please no more "get it" but more arguments..
Last edited by LFMN on Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Anyone want to hazard a guess at how the seniority system was voted on in the begining? They picked a day when all the Van drivers were off while the 1900 was out flying. The direct entry 1900 pilots were outnumbered and hence the BS list which as been and always will be in place at GGN!!
PS how does an office worker accrue seinority? And how come some office workers accrued full seniority while others were given half to non?
PS how does an office worker accrue seinority? And how come some office workers accrued full seniority while others were given half to non?
You guys make me laugh!
Always some reason why every thing or everyone in aviation is against you, but good for every one else!!
Its always something isn't it!!
I sure bet you were excited to have a job at the time!
Now it is a terrible system?
GLAD YOUR GONE!!
I have notice it to be a much happier place to work now!!!
See ya!! Good luck with your new company and how they must be doing you wrong because you have 5000+ hours and worked for comair and flew a king air 90 in california...blah bla bla.. ( I know your story and I know your type!) and now a 3000 hr guy is your captain and he came from a navajo!
CRY TO SOMEONE WHO CARES!!!!
Its aviation NOTHING IS FAIR!!
DEAL WITH IT AND QUIT WHINING!!
Always some reason why every thing or everyone in aviation is against you, but good for every one else!!
Its always something isn't it!!
I sure bet you were excited to have a job at the time!
Now it is a terrible system?
GLAD YOUR GONE!!
I have notice it to be a much happier place to work now!!!
See ya!! Good luck with your new company and how they must be doing you wrong because you have 5000+ hours and worked for comair and flew a king air 90 in california...blah bla bla.. ( I know your story and I know your type!) and now a 3000 hr guy is your captain and he came from a navajo!
CRY TO SOMEONE WHO CARES!!!!
Its aviation NOTHING IS FAIR!!
DEAL WITH IT AND QUIT WHINING!!
Last edited by hab it on Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hab it, just to clarify when I worked for GGN I was wearing a Canadian uniform and working out of T3 satellite flying the C and the D, so its been awhile. The reason GGN is a great company is the 1900's. The reason GGN has the 1900's is because of direct entry captains who were hired to train the Van guys, without them they never would have got airborne. I think GGN is the best company to work for in Canada at that level of the industry minus the seniority system. When it was originally voted in we all knew there was going to be issues.
Your post is all over the place so I will assume one of two things, either you are a raging alcoholic and drunk in the middle of the day or your first language is not english, either way
1 I have never thought aviation was against me, we as pilots are our own worst enemies..me included!
2 I wasn't excited to have a job at GGN, but I was excited to be leaving my previous job
3 yes it is a terrible system and was flawed from the start
4 instead of telling us you are glad we're gone maybe you should be thanking us for paving the way for you.
5 GGN was a great place to work when I was there and I'm sure it still is now.
6 I have had a couple of "new" companies since GGN and they have not done me wrong.
7 there is no chance of a 3000 hr navajo pilot sitting in the right seat of our airplanes let alone the left.
Cheers
Your post is all over the place so I will assume one of two things, either you are a raging alcoholic and drunk in the middle of the day or your first language is not english, either way
1 I have never thought aviation was against me, we as pilots are our own worst enemies..me included!
2 I wasn't excited to have a job at GGN, but I was excited to be leaving my previous job
3 yes it is a terrible system and was flawed from the start
4 instead of telling us you are glad we're gone maybe you should be thanking us for paving the way for you.
5 GGN was a great place to work when I was there and I'm sure it still is now.
6 I have had a couple of "new" companies since GGN and they have not done me wrong.
7 there is no chance of a 3000 hr navajo pilot sitting in the right seat of our airplanes let alone the left.
Cheers
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redbaron80
- Rank 1
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:25 pm
All Right.....just glad to see that I am not the only one....
At the end of the day, we all have to work together to get where we want to.....
NEVER I recall saying that I wasn't greatfull for getting a job at GGN....since I kept saying it is a great place to work for and I was very happy to join;...It got me where I wanted to..and like everybody else, used it as a stepping stone.
Now that the system was flawed and that I am looking at my own interests, OFF COURSE!!!! if it was the other way around "Hab It", wouldn't you express your thoughts about this??? now please be honest!!!
And if you read back the posts, it was only some information for DE FO 1900 thinking of going to GGN and having hopes of quick upgrades....like you said poeple are told in the interview....well, we are just telling them now over the DISCUSSION FORUM ahead of time!!
So this is no whining, no crying, just stating facts...
Cheers
At the end of the day, we all have to work together to get where we want to.....
NEVER I recall saying that I wasn't greatfull for getting a job at GGN....since I kept saying it is a great place to work for and I was very happy to join;...It got me where I wanted to..and like everybody else, used it as a stepping stone.
Now that the system was flawed and that I am looking at my own interests, OFF COURSE!!!! if it was the other way around "Hab It", wouldn't you express your thoughts about this??? now please be honest!!!
And if you read back the posts, it was only some information for DE FO 1900 thinking of going to GGN and having hopes of quick upgrades....like you said poeple are told in the interview....well, we are just telling them now over the DISCUSSION FORUM ahead of time!!
So this is no whining, no crying, just stating facts...
Cheers
