CT-156 Harvard II

Chop&Drop · Post by **Chop&Drop** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:59 pm

Hello all. I LOVE the Harvard II. Just wondering if anyone out there has any pics/movies of this aircraft.
I like this aircraft so much I would just join the air force just to fly her.

Also anyone who has flowen this machine, what did you think? Was it as fun as it looks?

Thanks!

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:16 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI3JqFkXXSE

Seems to be a neat video.

Enjoy!

-istp

av8tor_assrope · Post by **av8tor_assrope** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:28 pm

nawwww......the thing looks weird and it has one of those whinning turbines in it. now the original harvard.....ahhh now there's a real airplane.

looproll · Post by **looproll** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:05 am

here are two pics that I took:

AEROMONKEY · Post by **AEROMONKEY** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:23 am

groundpilot · Post by **groundpilot** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:16 pm

Can anyone give a quick tutorial on how to post pics?

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:26 pm

check pm

AEROMONKEY · Post by **AEROMONKEY** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:46 pm

tell me how to post pics too please!!

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:59 pm

done, chech pm

TerrainTerrain · Post by **TerrainTerrain** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:02 pm

she be flowen.

groundpilot · Post by **groundpilot** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:29 pm

Thanks for the PM. You learn something new everyday!

The Harvard was a pretty sweet machine to fly. You really have to take a sec to realize the equipment you get to fly in the military and the flying your doing. Sometimes the stress of training really takes the fun out of flying.

Here are some pics from my collection.

MUSICMAAN · Post by **MUSICMAAN** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:39 pm

Damn sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet machine.... Another fine aircraft brought to you by the Swiss. If you like that one, check out the Pilatus PC-21, it's the Pilatus answer to Beech/Ratheon pissing them off. I had a chance to see this thing up close at the factory in Switzerland... off the fuckin wall man!! I would post a picture but I'm another dummy that doesn't know how.... hey mellow-pilot, can you help me out here too???

There's a sweet video on youtube with a PC-21 too.

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:43 pm

Check pm.

(I have to start charging a consulting fee or something.)

Tubthumper · Post by **Tubthumper** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:30 pm

Tubthumper · Post by **Tubthumper** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:31 pm

Tubthumper · Post by **Tubthumper** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:31 pm

...thought I was havin' puter problems, sorry for all useless posts....

PC-21:

Chop&Drop · Post by **Chop&Drop** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:54 am

Thanks guys. Keep em comming! Theres a cool vid on google video, http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid= ... 6&q=CT-156 definitly worth watching if your interested in this wonderful machine.

It's the Pitts · Post by **It's the Pitts** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:29 am

Cool Vids!

A few Q's???

What happens to you after you've completed your training on the 2?
Why is the RCAF such douche-bags when it comes to pilot recrutment?
Because some of the best drivers out there are flying in the bush and they have skills that the military just can't drill into you.

Where on your W & B do you account for your extra 100 lbs. of ego?

Why are you guys/girls always in the way of general aviation, and why do you always act like you are the only guys in the sky? Are you not training? While others are trying to make a profit.

Any takers???

Pitts

AEROMONKEY · Post by **AEROMONKEY** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:31 am

http://tbsource.com/pictures/view.asp?c ... returnurl=

Now thats a Harvard ....built in YQT

Blakey · Post by **Blakey** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:17 pm

It's the Pitts wrote:Cool Vids!

A few Q's???

What happens to you after you've completed your training on the 2?
Why is the RCAF such douche-bags when it comes to pilot recrutment?
Because some of the best drivers out there are flying in the bush and they have skills that the military just can't drill into you.

Where on your W & B do you account for your extra 100 lbs. of ego?

Why are you guys/girls always in the way of general aviation, and why do you always act like you are the only guys in the sky? Are you not training? While others are trying to make a profit.

Any takers???

Pitts

Hi Pitts,

I'll do what I can to fill in your blanks.

1. After the 2 there's a triple stream now. Hawk for the fast jet students, King Air's for multi types and Jet Rangers for the fling-wing crowd. No, you don't get to chose Maverick. You get to ask but they put you where they need/want you.

2. The CAF (The "R" went away in 1968) is very "anal" about recruiting because we can be. It's the same reason that Air Canada doesn't run a pilot training school. There are hundreds of applicants for every opening. We chose only those seen as the better or most qualified candidates. We don't need every military pilot to be an aeronautical engineer but, if they had enough apply, that would probably a determining factor as well. Nobody else gets to be as fussy because nobody else is offering to give you several million dollars worth of training before you do your first "revenue" trip in an F-18. I fully agree that there are some things that you can only learn in the bush, on floats, in a light twin or in a company that has to make a profit to survive but the Air Force has had much better luck starting with a "green" candidate and teaching him the Air Force way from day one. Honesty demands that I admit however, that there are few, if any, bush/civilian experienced pilots in the higher ranks and it is only human nature to discount any experience that you do not have yourself. In short, it's fairly normal for most people to think "I didn't do it so it's not good experience".

I sense that you may have had a personal experience that has soured you on the Air Force and you have my sympathy if this is so but it's really just supply and demand.

3. The Loadmaster does the W and B and there's lots of room in the back for all of our egos! Again, I must be honest and admit that there are a few people who carry a little more ego than they should and this is because they were lucky enough to get into the Air Force right out of school so they've never worked a dock or loaded frozen fish as a Co-joe. See number 2 above re: experience!

4. Do you have a particular example or is this a general comment? What follows is an explaination not an excuse. There is no excuse for not knowing how to do your job.

Please try to remember that most of these guys have never flown outside the military for any significant amount of hours. You ever see an F-18 at an uncontrolled airport? I have, but not often and it can sometimes be embarassing! I do what I can to instill some knowledge of civilian ops in new First Officers but there is a lot to learn and some of it is not written anywhere. I never hold up a commercial flight if I can help it and will cancel IFR as soon as I'm VFR in order to let somebody depart from a northern field on an IFR flight; I will hold for them to taxi out first and I'll even let them jump me in the fuel line if I know they are on a schedule. Active SAR launches or critical operational missions are different but they really don't come up that often. Most of the guys I've seen that are gulity of being "in the way of general aviation" just didn't have the knowledge of what it means to a civilian operation to be late.

I did have an interesting trip this week though, see what you think of it. I was in the RADAR square at my home airport (where we DO own the sky) and I was number 2 to a civilian aircraft that was training in our airspace because the major international airport where he was based doesn't allow repetative approaches for training. Therefore, although I never went to the airport in question, by accepting this aircraft for training at our airport, we actually speed up the arrivals into his home drome by reducing traffic numbers by 1. He did 5 IFR approaches and "got in my way" on every one. This cost about 45-60 minutes of delay to my flight @$6000/hr. Think I should send them a bill?

Cheers
Blakey

Skosh · Post by **Skosh** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:25 pm

You ever see an F-18 at an uncontrolled airport? I have but not often and it is always embarassing for the CF!

Explain.

Skosh

Blakey · Post by **Blakey** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:33 pm

Skosh wrote:
You ever see an F-18 at an uncontrolled airport? I have but not often and it is always embarassing for the CF!
Explain.

Skosh

Too easy. It is embarassing to see a Hornet pilot call "taking the runway for take-off" and then proceed to bitch out the guy in the 150 who is landing and "should go around to let me get off". They just don't get enough time at uncontrolled airports to be proficient at operating there. Find an F-18 pilot, without civilian time, and ask him how to join the curcuit at an uncontrolled aerodrome. I don't mean to imply that they are all this way but one example leaves a lasting impression as Pitts amply demonstrates.

It's the Pitts · Post by **It's the Pitts** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:46 pm

Blackey,

Thanks for the response. I was surprised that anyone would give an actual response.

I guess the main point which I wanted to put emphasis on is airmanship. It was one of the first lessons which I was taught. I don't think it should matter if you're millitary or civilian or even two competing civi's, we should still have good airmanship and I think alot of guys have forgot that lesson.

Pitts

PS: I have never applied for the CAF...... and don't think that I ever will. It's not for me.
[/quote]

groundpilot · Post by **groundpilot** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:20 pm

It is very hard for a lot of CF pilots to get that airmanship with so many local flights at one military airport. They are just not used to it. And as said, 95% of Hornet pilots have no/min civie exposure.

Egos...it is as much a problem internal as external. But what do you expect?

The training they go through is way beyond any civie training and it is very difficult. Although many fast jet guys don't have any attitude, some do and just imagine being brought into this culture. A very demanding culture where they hold a carrot in front of you for years. Then one day you actually get to that carrot that seemed so far before, yeah you develop an ego. But don't confuse ego from confidence because in the very dynamic world of military flying you need to make decisions on pure instinct and you need confidence in the decisions you make. I am not saying that decisions in the civie world aren't challenging but are you ALWAYS low on fuel? ALWAYS having someone try to shoot you down(this is in more of training sense)? ALWAYS have a more experienced pilot with you spend hours debriefing you on where you screwed up(even if it is slight)?

I am not saying its right but I think a lot of people here would have some ego issues if they won't through the crap these pilots have gone through. Its a lot of work, dedication and sacrifice.

EDIT: "work, dedication and sacrifice" applies to almost all aviation professonals - just different for the military.

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:35 pm

It's the Pitts wrote:
PS: I have never applied for the CAF...... and don't think that I ever will. It's not for me.

Well that's an ironic statement.

Not to be an ass here, but that attitude is pretty much the same as the one you are pissed about. So it's not for you, that's fine. It is for some people. Crusing back and forth from Toronto to Vancouver on autopilot is not for me, but hey, I know plenty of folks who dream about it.

Remember that if a CF pilot is flying a training airplane, they're probably training. Now when I was whipping around at 50-150hrs I didn't have a sweet machine that could do over 200kts with a thousand SHP turbine up front dragging my confused ass around the sky. I had a couple hundred hp and alot of time to figure out just what the hell to do next... so you might give the poor bastards a break.

I'm sure while training I caused my fair share of delays for other people. I've been delayed too. Once I was delayed for 30min on the runway, all set to take off, in YQB waiting for a medevac who hadn't even loaded a patient. Now how was my little Katana going to hold up these folks on a VFR day with a half hour head start? Did I whine about it? Nope. Thems the breaks. Shit happens.

I think the airmanship thing goes both ways. So the guy delayed you, maybe he/she didn't mean to, maybe they don't even know they did! Instead of assuming they're assholes, you might try looking at it from the other side. Perhaps constructive criticism rather than anger? I see alot of roadrage style comments from pilots who have just acted like dick-heads themselves. Sometimes we all need to calm down a little. (that has included me from time to time)

There are assholes in every crowd. Be it Big Red, the CF, your local club, Big Bob's Big Bass tours, or a college FTU. There are also good eggs. And just like everywhere else in the world there are toes being stepped on accidentally.