Canadian Passport

[2R]

For Canadians holding more than one nationality planning to travel abroad .
Please read the caveat on page 25 of your Canadian Passport.
"Canadian citizens who have more than one nationality through birth ,descent,marrige or naturalization are advised that while in the country of their other nationality ,they may be subject to all of its laws and obligations,particularly military service.


Enjoy your holidays

[niss]

No Biggie,

I hold Israeli and Canadian Passports. Last time I went I had to go to the consulate and get my army exemption papers.

Only wasted the whole afternoon there but what can you do.

[C-FABH]

What can you do?

Not wuss out and serve the motherland with pride!

[niss]

LOL I think I just wanted to enjoy my trip and save my 3 year stint for another time.....

Your at CNB9? Instructing?

[C-FABH]

chillin like a villain

[LastSamurai]

Don't forget to claim your passport fees on your income taxes...if they are required for work of course.

LS

[grounded]

Had a friend of my brother go back to Turkey for a visit with the extended family. When he got there he had no problems getting into the country.(He holds passports for both Canada and Turkey) He was there for about a month, and when it csme time to leave he was told at the airport that he had been conscripted into the military and he was to report to this base to serve out his three years. It took a couple of weeks and about $10,000 of Daddys' money for him to be allowed to leave the country again, and keep his citizenship for Turkey without serving in the military. That guy was really happy to be back in Canada! I think he lives in Spain now.

[2R]

Smart guy i would not want to fight for Turkey either.

If he will not fight for his homeland i wonder where he will run too if Canada ever needs defending ??

Why do we give passports to cowards ???

[w squared]

Why do we give passports to "cowards"? Because we have a professional, all-volunteer military. We don't require consrciption to meet our defense needs. Not everyone that is not in the military is a coward.

That said, ths issue does raise questions about those who have citizenship from a country with compulsory military service and choose not to fulfill the obligations that are part of that citizenship. I know that if I had Swiss citiznship as well as Canadian, I would probably see serving my required term in the swiss military as a part of the obligations that go along with being a Swiss citizen.

Citizenship should be a two way street.

You're entitled to the social welfare benefits of being a citizen (education, heatlth care, roads, policing, fire services, ambulances, etc.), but you're also obliged to pay taxes in accordance with the laws of the country in order to support those services.

You're entitled to vote in order to determine who represents you in the national government (provided that it's a democracy), but you're also morally responsible to exercise your best judgement and choose those that will do what's right for the nation (Okay, this is rather a utopian view of western democracy, but that's how it's usppoed to work)

You're entitled to protection from criminals, and entitled to expect that if someone hurts you, they will be punished in accordance with the law. You're also obliged to abide by that same law, or face the consequences if you fail to.

The whole concept is that being a citizen doesn't just mean that you get a passport, it means that you are a contributing member of a society. You have certain rights, and you have certain obligations.

I'm not going to condemn anyone for deciding not to serve in the military of a country that they do not actually reside in (as long as it's done in a way that is legal in that country), but I for one would have some misgivings about maintaining citizenship in a country that I don't believe strongly enough in to contribute to.

Believe it or not, Robert Heinlen's book "Starship Troopers" is an interesting look at the concept of citizenship, and the responsibilities that go along with it. And it's a quick, easy, fun read. Just about every infantry officer that I know has read it at one time or another.

[niss]

Dont forget, I was born out of Canada and have lived here my whole life....I am actually not required to serve. Granted if the shit really hit the fan and I was needed I would probably go. But as a citizen visiting I really had no desire to serve.

[mellow_pilot]

Believe it or not, Robert Heinlen's book "Starship Troopers" is an interesting look at the concept of citizenship, and the responsibilities that go along with it. And it's a quick, easy, fun read. Just about every infantry officer that I know has read it at one time or another.

I haven't read the book, but an interesting fact about the movie is that a few (perhaps alot) of the scenes mirror WWII propaganda reels. From Germany. The part where Johnny says to the reporter, "I'm from Buenos Aires, an' I say kill them all!" was orginally an ash-faced German woman saying, "I'm from Hamburg..." (or was it Dresden... I can't remember).

Anywho, there's a bunch of scenes like that.

The idea that citizenship is dependent on service to the state was, originally, a facist ideal. Not to say that it is entirely without merit, but I would humbly suggest that it is not completely compatible with western democratic ideology.

I do agree, however, that there are a growing number of citizens who enjoy the privilages granted by said status without truly appreciating what it cost.

[Smurfjet]

Granted if the shit really hit the fan...

You mean what's been happening there is just a pissing match?

[Rem]

Hey 2R did you find that out too late when the Scots made you put on a skirt and toss cabers at the English when you went home to visit?

[2R]

It is not skirt unless you are wearing matching highheels and a handbag .
I am off to my bagpipe practice the noo,Practice always starts with a fine single malt

[w squared]

I haven't read the book, but an interesting fact about the movie is that a few (perhaps alot) of the scenes mirror WWII propaganda reels. From Germany. The part where Johnny says to the reporter, "I'm from Buenos Aires, an' I say kill them all!" was orginally an ash-faced German woman saying, "I'm from Hamburg..." (or was it Dresden... I can't remember).

Anywho, there's a bunch of scenes like that.

The idea that citizenship is dependent on service to the state was, originally, a facist ideal. Not to say that it is entirely without merit, but I would humbly suggest that it is not completely compatible with western democratic ideology.

I do agree, however, that there are a growing number of citizens who enjoy the privilages granted by said status without truly appreciating what it cost.

The movie actually didn't stay very close at all to the book...but I am completely with you on the fascist/nazi flavour of the movie. I don't just mean Doogie Howser's "Gestapo" leather trenchcoat and SS inspired forage cap.

The flaw in the Starship Troopers model of citizenship is that it FORCES individuals to contribute in a particular way in order to earn their basic rights as a citizen. As you said, mellow_pilot, that's not particularily compatible with what us westerners see as our democratic ideals. If you force someone (especially straight out of high school) into military or other service, you are by no means ensuring that they understand or have any intention of adhering to the concept of citizenship. You will probably end up alienating a percentage of those people that you force into service - and that's counterproductive if you're looking to spread understanding of what citizenship is about.

[CD]

The flaw in the Starship Troopers model of citizenship is that it FORCES individuals to contribute in a particular way in order to earn their basic rights as a citizen. As you said, mellow_pilot, that's not particularily compatible with what us westerners see as our democratic ideals. If you force someone (especially straight out of high school) into military or other service, you are by no means ensuring that they understand or have any intention of adhering to the concept of citizenship. You will probably end up alienating a percentage of those people that you force into service - and that's counterproductive if you're looking to spread understanding of what citizenship is about.

This is drifting off-topic but here is an interesting article in the news today from our neighbours to the south:

Rangel to introduce bill reviving military draft
Sunday, November 19, 2006; 4:11 PM

WASHINGTON -- Americans would have to sign up for a new military draft after turning 18 if the incoming chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee has his way.

Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., said Sunday he sees his idea as a way to deter politicians from launching wars and to bolster U.S. troop levels insufficient to cover potential future action in Iran, North Korea and Iraq.

"There's no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm's way," Rangel said.

Rangel, a veteran of the Korean War who has unsuccessfully sponsored legislation on conscription in the past, said he will propose a measure early next year.

In 2003, he proposed a measure covering people age 18 to 26. This year, he offered a plan to mandate military service for men and women between age 18 and 42; it went nowhere in the Republican-led Congress.

Democrats will control the House and Senate come January because of their victories in the Nov. 7 election.

At a time when some lawmakers are urging the military to send more troops to Iraq, "I don't see how anyone can support the war and not support the draft," said Rangel, who also proposed a draft in January 2003, before the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican who is a colonel in the U.S. Air Force Standby Reserve, said he agreed that the U.S. does not have enough people in the military.

"I think we can do this with an all-voluntary service, all-voluntary Army, Air Force, Marine Corps and Navy. And if we can't, then we'll look for some other option," said Graham, who is assigned as a reserve judge to the Air Force Court of Criminal Appeals.

Rangel, the next chairman of the House tax-writing committee, said he worried the military was being strained by its overseas commitments.

"If we're going to challenge Iran and challenge North Korea and then, as some people have asked, to send more troops to Iraq, we can't do that without a draft," Rangel said.

He said having a draft would not necessarily mean everyone called to duty would have to serve. Instead, "young people (would) commit themselves to a couple of years in service to this great republic, whether it's our seaports, our airports, in schools, in hospitals," with a promise of educational benefits at the end of service.

Graham said he believes the all-voluntary military "represents the country pretty well in terms of ethnic makeup, economic background."

Repeated polls have shown that about seven in 10 Americans oppose reinstatement of the draft and officials say they do not expect to restart conscription.

Outgoing Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld told Congress in June 2005 that "there isn't a chance in the world that the draft will be brought back."

Yet the prospect of the long global fight against terrorism and the continuing U.S. commitment to stabilizing Iraq have kept the idea in the public's mind.

The military drafted conscripts during the Civil War, both world wars and between 1948 and 1973. An agency independent of the Defense Department, the Selective Service System trains, keeps an updated registry of men age 18-25 _ now about 16 million _ from which to supply untrained draftees that would supplement the professional all-volunteer armed forces.

[Dash-Ate]

Why do we give passports to "cowards"? Because we have a professional, all-volunteer military. We don't require consrciption to meet our defense needs.

Oh no? Have a read they (we in the west) are pushing for WW3 and need bodies, ASAP. I do notice that the "insurgents" have no problem with recruiting and don't even pay a salary and have basic weaponary. Now who is more patriotic in defending their country? We can't even find people to pay to go. But we have "freedom" I guess. And oil.

Congressman Rangel Will Seek to Reinstate Draft

WASHINGTON (Nov. 19) - A senior House Democrat said Sunday he will introduce legislation to reinstate the military draft, asserting that current troop levels are insufficient to sustain possible challenges against Iran, North Korea and Iraq.



Stephan Savoia, AP
Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., a veteran of the Korean War who has unsuccessfully sponsored legislation on conscription in the past, said he will propose the measure to reinstate the draft early next year.


"There's no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm's way," said Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y.

Rangel, a veteran of the Korean War who has unsuccessfully sponsored legislation on conscription in the past, said he will propose the measure early next year.

At a time when some lawmakers are urging the military to send more troops to Iraq, "I don't see how anyone can support the war and not support the draft," he said.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican who is a colonel in the U.S. Air Force Standby Reserve, said he agreed that the U.S. does not have enough people in the military.

"I think we can do this with an all-voluntary service, all-voluntary Army, Air Force, Marine Corps and Navy. And if we can't, then we'll look for some other option," said Graham, who is assigned as a reserve judge to the Air Force Court of Criminal Appeals.

Rangel, incoming chairman of the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, said he worried the military was being strained by its overseas commitments.

"If we're going to challenge Iran and challenge North Korea and then, as some people have asked, to send more troops to Iraq, we can't do that without a draft," Rangel said.

He said having a draft would not necessarily mean everyone called to duty would have to serve. Instead, "young people (would) commit themselves to a couple of years in service to this great republic, whether it's our seaports, our airports, in schools, in hospitals," with a promise of educational benefits at the end of service.

Graham said he believes the all-voluntary military "represents the country pretty well in terms of ethnic makeup, economic background."

[mellow_pilot]

I'm sure N Korea's army is entirely volunteer...

As for the middle east, I think the promise of eternal life with 50 virgins and the threat of eternal damnation might be counted as coersion, not perks for volunteering.

But hey, what do I know? I've been trying to volunteer for a while now...

[niss]

You mean what's been happening there is just a pissing match?

Its not quite at the level it was in 1948 where they were recruiting every man woman and child available.

When my other country really needs me I will go.

[Guido]

You mean what's been happening there is just a pissing match?

Its not quite at the level it was in 1948 where they were recruiting every man woman and child available.

When my other country really needs me I will go.

Pssst... Niss... this is your other country speaking... we need you. Now! Hurry, please go now! Please!

[BigB]

You mean what's been happening there is just a pissing match?

Its not quite at the level it was in 1948 where they were recruiting every man woman and child available.

When my other country really needs me I will go.

Niss,

I admire loyalty. It is a good virtue to have. However I find much bravado and talk, and very little walk WRT your actions.

From my observations during Basic training, it was normally the ones who showed up day one, acting as if they were Gods gift to the military, that ended up curled-up in a ball crying for Mommy within the first week.

I'm not saying that you would not make a fine soldier, however actions are stronger than words.