Westjet Phraseology

[Front.]

does WJ fly into any uncontrolled airports where they just join the circuit LOL ?

but seriously though, don't they cancle IFR when they fly into places like Kelowna? I was under the impression that ATC keeps them IFR but tells them to descend via visual referance if the weather is proper... any clarfication on that...

[pokaroo]

A lot of the big airlines aren't allowed to Cancel due to insurance purposes, much like taking a VFR departure. As far as descending via visual reference not quite sure what you're talking about here but I think you may mean a visual approach. Aircraft calls the field in site. Reported weather at the station is 500' above the Min IFR or Vectoring altitude..... fill your boots you find your own way to the airport. You are still an IFR aircraft just flying visually.

[Pygmie]

...As far as descending via visual reference not quite sure what you're talking about here but I think you may mean a visual approach.

ATC can clear an IFR aircraft to descend visually from one altitude to another as long as the descent happens in anything but class A or B airspace. There are no weather requirements for this other then the pilot having to be VMC, as opposed to a visual approach needing specific minimums at the airport.

Also, ATC can clear an IFR aircraft to descend while maintaining terrain clearance visually, allowing an IFR aircraft to descend below the minimum IFR altitudes without actually cancelling IFR.

[the_professor]

"Departures, Westjet 77 is with you outta 4000 feet". Heard a controller respond one day.. "Westjet 77 YXZ CENTRE, go ahead?" "Yeah, centre, Westjet 77 is with you outta 4800 feet". To which centre responds "And your altitude climbing to?". Anybody see the problem with this? Right on the SID it says to contact YXZ CENTRE through 4000' while climbing to 8000'. So WJ, how about trying..."YXZ centre, Westjet 77 is with you through 4000 in the climb to 8000". There, is that so hard? Altitude leaving and altitude cleared to.

Why a controller is wasting time on frequency waiting for the pilot to state a SID altitude is beyond me. Unless something different was coordinated with tower, it is totally redundant. The only exception would be if the controller intended to level the aircraft at the SID altitude.

And regarding ride reports, it not always smooth at FL410, and controllers often solicit ride reports. Maybe you'll find that out once you're flying something that can reach higher altitudes.

[the_professor]

Never had an issue with any WJA pilots regarding anything phraseology wise. Always professional in that regard.

Same here. Probably the cheeriest pilots on frequency most days.

[AirpranePirot]

Sometimes if I'm getting pissed of at ATC with all their restrictions and vectors I like to just turn my radios off, dial 7600 on the box and go direct to my IAF. Beacon inbound my radios magically kick back in and I call short final. "Sorry tower we'll get that checked, have a great day"

LOL! You cannot serious...

[.......]

Why a controller is wasting time on frequency waiting for the pilot to state a SID altitude is beyond me. Unless something different was coordinated with tower, it is totally redundant. The only exception would be if the controller intended to level the aircraft at the SID altitude.

In Europe, it is expected if not mandatory, on initial contact with departures, to state the SID you're flying, altitude leaving and altitude climbing to, as most SIDs contain many altitude constraints before final SID altitude.

[Rebel]

I’m very surprised at what passes for acceptable RT phraseology. Some think that slang is acceptable in Canadian airspace forgetting that some folks mother’s tongue isn't English.

In aviation the normal progression for pilots is to experience the world. So it is very important to learn and practice proper RT phraseology in proper English as that is the world’s standard. At least it's suppose to be. Captain Kool might not think its cool but it might just save your butt after a long duty day.

Food for thought:

Slang= creates confusion=mistakes=accidents as slang English is not understood by everyone.

[Front.]

very true, but that involves everybody and not just west jet

[the_professor]

Why a controller is wasting time on frequency waiting for the pilot to state a SID altitude is beyond me. Unless something different was coordinated with tower, it is totally redundant. The only exception would be if the controller intended to level the aircraft at the SID altitude.

In Europe, it is expected if not mandatory, on initial contact with departures, to state the SID you're flying, altitude leaving and altitude climbing to, as most SIDs contain many altitude constraints before final SID altitude.

And in Timbuktoo, they routinely state..... Who the cares about Europe when we're talking about Westjet?

[Rebel]

very true, but that involves everybody and not just west jet

Correct my post was meant as a general statement on RT phraseology and applies equally to everyone. Some Captain Kool's just don't get it, if you want to be treated and paid like a professional act like one.

[Notta Simfalt]

According to IPM 4.3.2 D, you "should" call with
Ident
Runway departed from
Altitude through
Altitude climbing to

It adds:
ATC may request verification of altitude if the pilot does not report it on initial contact. On departure, stating passing altitude allows the controller to verify Mode C operation and thus provide more efficient service.

[gonefishin']

... edited by toolow's mom... sorry

[boeing NG]

the_professor wrote
"And in Timbuktoo, they routinely state..... Who the cares about Europe when we're talking about Westjet?[/quote]"


I have flown in and out of Timbuktoo, there is no SID, STAR, just one frequency for everything.

[.......]

Why a controller is wasting time on frequency waiting for the pilot to state a SID altitude is beyond me. Unless something different was coordinated with tower, it is totally redundant. The only exception would be if the controller intended to level the aircraft at the SID altitude.

In Europe, it is expected if not mandatory, on initial contact with departures, to state the SID you're flying, altitude leaving and altitude climbing to, as most SIDs contain many altitude constraints before final SID altitude.

And in Timbuktoo, they routinely state..... Who the cares about Europe when we're talking about Westjet?

My point was that, according to your post, every departure ATC controller in Europe is making us waste valuable time and is redundant?

Also, I don't understand your line about the exception of levelling off at the SID altitude, wouldn't THAT be redundant???

[.......]

Who the cares about Europe when we're talking about Westjet?

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/publi ... -0.htm#7-5



''The initial call to Departure Control should contain at least:

(a) the aircraft call sign;

(b) the runway of departure;

(c) the present vacating altitude (to the nearest 100-foot increment); and

(d) the assigned (SID)altitude.

Example:

OTTAWA DEPARTURE, BEECH GOLF ALFA BRAVO TANGO, OFF RUNWAY 25, HEADING 250, LEAVING 1900 FOR 4000.''

[Fline@9]

Hey TOOLOWFLAPS... how about we get our avatar's together, give them a bottle of wine and see what happens (heh heh)

[2low]

Sounds like a plan my man!

[767]

ATC: westjet 44 cleared to land rwy 33
west jet: Bestjet pourtee por is clear to the land runway 33

[capt_yaw]

Where did Rocky go?

[oldtimer]

I think controllers ask for the altitude you are cleared to to verify you have it correct, much the same as a readback, because if you have it wrong and bust an altitude, there is conflicting traffic that can be put in jeopardy.

[YVR Dude]

sorry, but had a flight where I heard the westjet guy ask for the other runway into YVR..."Vancouver, would it be ok for us to dipsy doodle to the other one" Sorry but what kind of statement is that?
Or how about the request for direct to XYZ for "profit sharing"? While not all Westjet personel are like this, some of the guys definitly get 'weird' on the radio.. Not slandering, just reporting..

Been there, heard that!