I fly with captains and FO's who skipped the instructing route. I see it in their IFR skills.
Any Suggestions....
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The Other Kind
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Crazed Windscreen
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Fline@9
To bad all career decisions weren't that easy. I think the guy's just coming out of the flight schools had better put the pedal to the metal though. I could see them ending up just shy of there career goals like so many did in the late 70's and into the 80's/90's.
Not that I want that, but there is a trend.
If I could do it again I would get my ass to the big show tout schnell.
I went the other way and here I am hitting forty with a shit load of Otter time. Which is great if you want a job on a...Otter? Quantum leap to a Boeing though. so now I'm out on the hunt while fellow class mates are racking up seniority at AC, Cathay and WJ by the bucket full.
Oh well saw some cool country
To bad all career decisions weren't that easy. I think the guy's just coming out of the flight schools had better put the pedal to the metal though. I could see them ending up just shy of there career goals like so many did in the late 70's and into the 80's/90's.
Not that I want that, but there is a trend.
If I could do it again I would get my ass to the big show tout schnell.
I went the other way and here I am hitting forty with a shit load of Otter time. Which is great if you want a job on a...Otter? Quantum leap to a Boeing though. so now I'm out on the hunt while fellow class mates are racking up seniority at AC, Cathay and WJ by the bucket full.
Oh well saw some cool country
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Fline@9
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Crazed, Those are words of wisdom and experience talking. I guess it is easier for guys like us to sit back and play armchair quarterback.
I can't speak on someone else's experiences and chosen paths for obvious reasons. I can say this though, when you decide to make the sacrifices necessary to get you into the plane you "want" to fly, there can be no compromise. Often those choices are difficult. Sacrifices can range from emotional to financial and everything else in between.
My checklist was pretty simple. Pick your plane, pick your pay, pick your schedule. Once those questions were answered then I knew all that needed to reach my goal was determination and patience. Without them (and I say this with no malice whatsoever to you or anyone else)... you might find yourself at 40 somewhere in the middle of nowhere in a Twotter (or the like) asking how did I get here? The twotter is fine machine, but not if your heart is in a bus or a boing.
I can't speak on someone else's experiences and chosen paths for obvious reasons. I can say this though, when you decide to make the sacrifices necessary to get you into the plane you "want" to fly, there can be no compromise. Often those choices are difficult. Sacrifices can range from emotional to financial and everything else in between.
My checklist was pretty simple. Pick your plane, pick your pay, pick your schedule. Once those questions were answered then I knew all that needed to reach my goal was determination and patience. Without them (and I say this with no malice whatsoever to you or anyone else)... you might find yourself at 40 somewhere in the middle of nowhere in a Twotter (or the like) asking how did I get here? The twotter is fine machine, but not if your heart is in a bus or a boing.
Please, no more witty sayings, smug advice, or bitter posts from low timers. Pay your dues. Be patient...
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Crazed Windscreen
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Fline@9
You comin' in 5x5 there my friend. How many guys are out there that had that happen to them?
As for sacrifice, just ask my wife and 15 year old about that one. So far we've been lucky with only minor local (within 70 miles) moves or commutes. But we're lookin' at a whole new ball of wax with me hitting the streets lookin' for a new ride. I've gotta get my 2crew skills back before a move to the big show. So an intermediate step is required.
Fort McMurray here I come??? Well maybe we can do a little better than that.
You comin' in 5x5 there my friend. How many guys are out there that had that happen to them?
As for sacrifice, just ask my wife and 15 year old about that one. So far we've been lucky with only minor local (within 70 miles) moves or commutes. But we're lookin' at a whole new ball of wax with me hitting the streets lookin' for a new ride. I've gotta get my 2crew skills back before a move to the big show. So an intermediate step is required.
Fort McMurray here I come??? Well maybe we can do a little better than that.
I started working the ramp in September 2004 (a few months after grad) (2004), and did not touch an airplane until July 2005 (14 months after grad), and I can only think of one guy from my class that is "ahead" of me. I consider it that way because he went captain here (we work together) before I did, as he had the total time requirement met before I did. But he is not the typical case for my class. He came to college with his PPL, so he was able to get his CPL signed off earlier thereby allowing him to instruct during our summer off between 2nd and 3rd year. So he continued instructing right after grad and went back to the college to instruct shortly thereafter. So yes, he has more TT (probably 600-700 hours more), but since I had good seniority at our company, I was able to get a King Air F/O spot while building total time to go captain on the PC-12 and now I have 700 hours multi, so I have that edge, while he has the PIC edge. However, I've only been captain for about 1 month and I already have over 100 hours PIC in the PC-12, so I'm not worried about getting PIC time.
As for the other guys from my class that chose to instruct, I don't know all their outcomes. One, however, just got hired on here as an F/O, yet he only has about 300 hours less than me. So now he'll be building SIC time while I build PIC time. By instructing he got the PIC time first, and now must get some SIC time on type (min 500 hours I think) before getting upgraded.
So as you can see, it's more a matter of what you want to do. I was fully prepared to instruct, as I had a job lined up in my hometown. I wasn't thrilled about having to another $8000 on top of my already huge student debt to get that job, but hey, it was a job and times were a lot worse in 2004 than they are now. I was lucky enough to get the call to work the ramp in Sioux Lookout about a week before starting my instructor rating, so I saved myself $8000 and have no regrets about working the ramp, as it taught me a lot about our company and our customers, as well as giving me a year to study the PC-12 POH
. Also, by getting into the company early, I now have a good seniority number which comes in handy for things like base and holiday bids. I don't, however, have a lot of PIC time which means that although I have 1700 hours and a group 1, I can't get my ATPLs signed off until I have roughly 2100 hours, which is no biggy really because of how much we fly here.
If you've got a "better" half, talk it over with them and see what they think. If not, talk with some people that are farther along in the industry and get their take on it. Find out what the wait will be like on the ramp. Where I work it's anywhere from 6-10 months, which is pretty good. There is lots of movement so the ground wait times should be down all across Canada.
Hope this helps, and if it doesn't, I hope you enjoyed my mini-bio.
Good luck with whatever you choose!
EC
As for the other guys from my class that chose to instruct, I don't know all their outcomes. One, however, just got hired on here as an F/O, yet he only has about 300 hours less than me. So now he'll be building SIC time while I build PIC time. By instructing he got the PIC time first, and now must get some SIC time on type (min 500 hours I think) before getting upgraded.
So as you can see, it's more a matter of what you want to do. I was fully prepared to instruct, as I had a job lined up in my hometown. I wasn't thrilled about having to another $8000 on top of my already huge student debt to get that job, but hey, it was a job and times were a lot worse in 2004 than they are now. I was lucky enough to get the call to work the ramp in Sioux Lookout about a week before starting my instructor rating, so I saved myself $8000 and have no regrets about working the ramp, as it taught me a lot about our company and our customers, as well as giving me a year to study the PC-12 POH
. Also, by getting into the company early, I now have a good seniority number which comes in handy for things like base and holiday bids. I don't, however, have a lot of PIC time which means that although I have 1700 hours and a group 1, I can't get my ATPLs signed off until I have roughly 2100 hours, which is no biggy really because of how much we fly here.If you've got a "better" half, talk it over with them and see what they think. If not, talk with some people that are farther along in the industry and get their take on it. Find out what the wait will be like on the ramp. Where I work it's anywhere from 6-10 months, which is pretty good. There is lots of movement so the ground wait times should be down all across Canada.
Hope this helps, and if it doesn't, I hope you enjoyed my mini-bio.
Good luck with whatever you choose!
EC
You're forgetting a few important things...Fline@9 wrote:
Or, you could always heed Cracky's advice and pump gas and watch all the other aircraft taxing out for PIC time while you daydream about it.
Many an instructor go into a 703 operation with a big ego thinking they know it all and end up having a lot of problems to the point of being let go... some of my worst F/Os in a 703 operation were former instrcutors with over 1000 hours. My best F/Os started on the ramp and worked their way up.
Starting on the ramp shows the company your work ethic and the kind of person you are and that usually determines if you get the chance to hop in the right seat in the future.
Many instructors end up working the ramp in a company anyway and won't be moved into the flying position sooner because they have 800 hours... it's usually based on seniority and that also includes when it comes time for upgrades. The instrcutor with 500 hours PIC won't be favoured over the other F/O without any PIC when they have the same amount of time in the right seat... again, it's usually down to seniority and performance.
Go the instructing route if your *really* want to teach others... not just for the right seat PIC it gives you. Go to the ramp job if you want to learn about a 703 operation and show the bosses how good a person you are. Timing is everything and you may end up flying operationally a lot sooner then you think.
I didn't instruct and got a right seat turbine position after working about a month on the ramp... I was in a Learjet after a year and buiding turbine PIC a year and a half after that. Left the company as the senior Captain and went into a Boeing less then 7 years from starting on the ramp.Fline@9 wrote:Odysseus... if you got a right seat job "by" working on the ramp then you're in the top .0001 percentile of pilots that get that chance with little/no time.
Many, many pilots start on the ramp and get their right seat turbine job because of it... the amount of time you wait on the ramp is purely due to timing , your performance, and movement in the industry.
