Diploma/Degree?? Necessary or not??

captain_parsons · Post by **captain_parsons** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:55 pm

Hi Everyone,

I am in a moral and educational dilemma. I have the opportunity to sacrifice my future college diploma (from a soon to be defunct school) and trade it in for an advanced float course. So, the question is, is the diploma necessary to get an AIRLINE job? Or, is it a nice to have?

What do you guys and gals think?

motherfokker · Post by **motherfokker** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:01 pm

go fly, get an actual degree in something later, lets say Aircraft loading 101

jimdandy · Post by **jimdandy** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:13 pm

If u have a university degree to accompany your pilots license, then ur allgood. If u don't have one, then an aviation diploma course is nice. It will still come down to ur TT, and who u know.
Cheers
tex

yycflyguy · Post by **yycflyguy** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:37 pm

captain_parsons wrote:Hi Everyone,

I am in a moral and educational dilemma. I have the opportunity to sacrifice my future college diploma (from a soon to be defunct school) and trade it in for an advanced float course. So, the question is, is the diploma necessary to get an AIRLINE job? Or, is it a nice to have?

What do you guys and gals think?

Makes me think that the school isn't worth anything if it will soon be defunct.... that said, completing a diploma or degree program in ANYTHING shows that you can finish a task you have started and have the resourcefulness to accomplish it. Plus it provides a nice safety net when the doctor unexpectedly tells you that your diet of pork rinds and cigarettes has elevated your blood pressure to a point that you are no longer airworthy......

CAPGEN · Post by **CAPGEN** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:28 pm

You're talking about a university education like it's simply a means to an end. I can't speak for any college programs, but I would hope that I never use my degree as simply a line on my resume to get a job. If that's the case I would have spent half of the tuition I spent on some internet company that prints off diplomas from the "University of Steve" or something. Then again, I know a few people who started university with that attitude, but could have never finished the entire degree without their attitudes and perspectives changing.

10 years from now, I'd rather have a degree than 1000 more hours. If you've got the chance, I say get smart now, and the flying will come.

Just my take, good luck.

pimper · Post by **pimper** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:46 pm

You should go and invest your money on a massage parlour. Just make sure it stays open late.

JBI · Post by **JBI** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:46 pm

It depends what your ultimate aviation/life goal is. For airlines a Diploma from recognized Colleges such as Moncton, Mount Royal, Sault, Seneca, Chicoutimi, Selkirk and a few more get you extra points with your Air Canada application.

However, for most other places, hours and other trade skills are considered important. Can't say what to do in your case. Good Luck.

Go Guns · Post by **Go Guns** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:03 pm

Get your ratings and get out into the job market. For the 1st better part of a decade in your flying career, that diploma isn't going to mean much. Get a flying job and work on getting a degree in something not flying related. That way, if you medical out, or the industry hits a big snag, you'll have something to fall back on.

flynfiddle · Post by **flynfiddle** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:08 pm

It all depends on what YOU want to do. The aviation diploma craze is not what it used to be, probably because every mom & pop flying club has jumped on board offering their own version of the ACME aviation diploma. Why not get in on the action? .. student loans are easier to get than personal loans.

I work next to guys who have degrees, guys with diplomas and guys with just high school, the only thing we have in common is a CPL/MIFR and float rating. If you ask any those guys they'll probably say the only thing that matters is who's been here longer, coz that guy will get checked out next.

Shark14 · Post by **Shark14** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:08 pm

If its from a certain east coast college that i think you are talking about (NxxC) that is having big problems, you may wish to wait a little longer to see what that college is willing to do to finish up students that started, but never finished the program. That just may provide you with your answer.

If you have determined or have been told that the closing is a 'done deal', don't worry about the piece of paper and get on with flying. You need to get flying experience and TT to get going in this industry. You can always do college or uni another time if its that big 'airline' job you are after.

Hope that helps. Now get flying Parsons!!

flynfiddle · Post by **flynfiddle** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:12 pm

hmmm, after rereading my post I realize that I sounded like I was in favor of college programs. No. Like ThompsonAV8R, get out there and get employed. Diplomas from no-name schools are not worth your time and money.

just another pilot · Post by **just another pilot** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:40 pm

Keep your flight training and formal education separate.

CAPGEN · Post by **CAPGEN** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:58 pm

just another pilot wrote:Keep your flight training and formal education separate.

Well put.

Tube Driver · Post by **Tube Driver** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:09 pm

It is easy to tell which responders have degrees and which do not. Most likely those with formal education are in favor of it. Those without a degree blow it off as a waste of paper. Remember, university teaches you how to think critically, how to study, and how to write papers and reports. Not to mention the dedication that it takes to complete four years and recieve a BA, BSC or what have you. When you are making this choice remember that money invested in yourself is always well spent. Also, think who will move past the position of line pilot into management if the desire or the need should arise, the grade 12 graduate or the person with the economics degree. In the end the educated will catch up to an d pass the non educated as the opportunities are greater. However some of the people who will see and make the choice of wether to hire you or not in the smaller operations are uneducated and may view you as a threat to their future.

ScudRunner · Post by **ScudRunner** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:09 pm

Thats too funny, "University teaches you how to think critically". The most critical thinkin I did in my higher education days was wich brand of beer to buy. Degree's are not required and those aviation diplomas are good for wiping your ass when the delivery truck plunges through the Ice on the way to Buttfucknowhere. Save your money go to comunity college when you can and get out their flying. If you want a desk job then go for the degree it wil help you out down the road but if you just want to drive a peice of metal through the sky then no difference. And as far as the "dedication of completing a degree" I think it would show more critical thinking if you knew when to jump ship and relize its a waste of time for your choosing career.

Butterz · Post by **Butterz** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:36 pm

I personally think the younger you are when you get your first flying job the better. It gives you the chance to pay off any loans you may have sooner allowing you to get more established in life while your still able to enjoy it (ie. morgage a house, buy a half decent car, start a family, etc.). Why put off landing that first job another 4 years and add an additional 20-30 G's on your loans when you can always do correspondance course later on in your career when your ready to apply for AC. My opinion is get that float rating and dive into the market, the diploma won't matter till much later.

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:36 pm

do what you feel you want to do. A degree is never a waste of time, but it is also not for everyone. some people will council you not to bother, and others will say it is a great thing to do. Well, to each his own. I did a degree, and i has not helped me at all in flying career. It hasn't hurt either. But who cares? I loved going through university. Some of the best times of my life were there. You can love to fly, but not have everything in your life be determined by flying. Get a well rounded life experience. Who cares if it has nothing to do with aviation. Aviation is great and I love it, but come on man...have some diversity in your life. Whether that means going to uni, or learning a language, or travelling, or what ever you want. Life is about experiences, and you are limiting yourself severely if all your experiences are limited to aviation.

-wp

Tube Driver · Post by **Tube Driver** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:55 pm

No offence ., but what do you do after your days of flying a plane in the bush, retire? When you retire on the wages that are paid today you will end up like a Trailer Park Boy unless you have planned for the future. Retraining later in lfe is always a possibility when you are staring at retirement with little savings (due again to low pilot wages throughout your career) and a 40-50 thousand dollar a year job in your best years. So to have some education to fall back on when retraining would help. It might just save you from saying, "Hello and welcome to Wal-Mart ", when you are 60 years old.

CAL · Post by **CAL** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 9:46 pm

Thompsonboy had it right....get into the job market if you can and get into a company asap. Get some experience and skills so that no one can come back and tell you that you dont have them years down the line......with the right job you can get your degree part time...its not going to help you get that 1st 2nd or even 3rd job...maybe the airline gig if you are that lucky...what will get you work is attitude.

Go fly...or get as close to it as possible.

neverfail · Post by **neverfail** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:53 pm

Get an aviation diploma!

Learn to fly in weather! I have had like three peolple apply for jobs that went to a certain school in ZBB that said they wouldn't fly because it was raining!

Get a diploma in reality!

Yoyoma · Post by **Yoyoma** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:28 am

Here's another view on the subject...

I had a degree and flew for a living. One day, it was all gone. I decided that I needed something else and my degree allowed me with only a year back in school to steer my life and career.

It doesn't have to be a Bsc, Msc or PhD...Trades are great too and certificates in different areas help...

You might read this and say, all I want is to fly and I'm not quiting...But hey, all I ever wanted was to fly...I did the waiting, the loading, the flying and even padded a logbook...

Just look at me now...

My 2 €...

just another pilot · Post by **just another pilot** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:25 am

Voluntary exile in France? Or are you there to take a German course?

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:46 am

Yoyoma's point is an excellent one.

I think the requirement for a degree depends on your career goals and a supply/demand relationship.

Outside of Canada degrees are often required. I was surprised to see a current ad on http://www.climbto350.com for an Alaska bush-type company which requires, in addition to the normal group of licences and ratings and flightime, a 4-year university degree. The company I currently work for normally requires a 4-year degree, but has temporarily suspended that requirement in some cases as they try to address their staffing needs. Most US airlines, as well as many world airlines, ask for higher educations of their applicants, as have a number of airlines in Canada (in it's last years, Canadian Airlines required a 4-year degree and Air Canada makes it very clear that they favor it).

Over my aviation career, I got a 4-year degree as well as a Float rating (also from a more advanced training scheme)-- the float rating never came to any use, however the 4-year degree was required in at least one job, and was attractive for a few others. I've had a few CP's comment on it.

Having said all that, I am not certain of how far away you are from getting your diploma (if you are on the final lap, I would finish it-- a diploma or degree shows that you can stick to a long term program) or where you are getting it. I have also gotten the impression that not all Diplomas given in Canada are equal.

Hope this helps give a balanced view when combined with the other comments.

ScudRunner · Post by **ScudRunner** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:46 am

TubeDriver, No offence taken. Unlike some Ive been actually earning decent money flying, Ive planned ahead. And if your lucky I might hire you to be a greeter at my chain of stores but you'll have to cut that mullet. Besides I never really said it was a bad thing but its not required if you just want to be a pilot. Myself Aviation is just something I do to pay the bills and have my hand in many other pots wich are very lucrative. That form of education just wasnt my bag and I have been very succesful without it.

groo · Post by **groo** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:53 pm

I've had my diploma (non aviation) since 91, been employed the whole time in a few industries and have never been asked to provide my credentials. Come to think of it, never been asked for ID either. I have given a photocopy of my licence, but nobody has asked to prove it's mine.

It can't hurt, but be forwarned

Diploma/Degree?? Necessary or not??

Diploma/Degree?? Necessary or not??

Re: Diploma/Degree?? Necessary or not??

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