I guess everyone does a walk around before the first flight of the day? or do they?? Ever see anyone jump in and fly off with little or no pre-flight/walk around?
I remember seeing guys wiping the frost off the windscreen to make a peep hole to see the taxi lights & runway.
Even more serious I just watched a show/series "Mayday" on the Discovery Channel about Aeroperu doing a flight with duct tape over the pitot/static ports. Choas in the cockpit no doubt.
Let me know if you have any interesting stories relating to lack of pre-flight inspections/walk arounds.
Walk Around
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FROM AN EYEWITNESS - POSSIBLY EXAGGERATED AS PER PILOT STANDARD IN STORYTELLING:
A C185 taxied out and took off from YXL last winter with the tail tents still on. Heard from an eyewitness the aircraft became airborne and began climbing rapidly before the pilot used power to arrest the ascent. Made a (lucky) landing on remaining runway, took the tents off, turned around and went off the other runway.
To answer your question, it always surprises me how I see so many people hop in without checking anything. Now I remember flight school where we spent 20 minutes checking every flap pushrod bearing and the overall condition of the rivets, etc., which is a tad overboard. (How about a quick 50-hr inspection before we go flying?)
With the above story, (I know it is true he left with the tents on I just can't personally confirm the details) that guy is one lucky bugger. I can't say for a second I do the walkaround that was taught way back when in school but I do, without fail, check my a/c starting at my door and working in a circle:
PITOT TUBE - cover off, not obviously plugged
FUEL STRAINERS - clear, bright, clean, BLUE, etc.
AILERON / FLAP (PORT) - general condition from what you can tell by looking at it / fiddling
LANDING GEAR (PORT) - general condition, tire pressure, brake hose
GEAR WHEEL WELL - clean, inner workings show no red fluid
STATIC PORT (PORT) - clean
BAGGAGE DOOR - closed, locked
TAIL - control surface general condition, elevator trim pushrod secure ( a known problem is they come loose on my a/c)
STATIC PORT (STARBOARD) - clean
AILERON / FLAP (STARBOARD) - general condition from what you can tell by looking at it / fiddling
LANDING GEAR (STARBOARD) - general condition, tire pressure, brake hose
GEAR WHEEL WELL - clean, inner workings show no red fluid
LANDING GEAR (NOSE) - general condition, tire pressure, doors secure
PROPELLER - general blade condition, no red fluid at hub, area clear of rocks and debris
OIL FILLER CAP - on (heck of a mess otherwise)
OIL - quantity
COWLING - no obvious obstructions
TURBOCHARGER INTAKE - no obvious obstructions
CABIN / AVIONICS AIR INTAKE - no obvious obstructions
BELLY - no unexplained fluids
FUEL - quantity, caps on
TAKE A STEP BACK - have an overall look - you might see that seatbelt hanging out the door (that does remarkable damage if missed) or that you aren't still chocked, tied down or have the tents still on.
That walkaround takes me about a minute to complete - nothing fancy just general checking. Put me on floats and things change a bit with what can be checked within reason but I check as much as I can plus floats, cables, struts, pulleys, etc. Again - only a minute. How can anyone justify "hopping in" and going? Consequences are too high!!!
Anyone think I missed anything?
A C185 taxied out and took off from YXL last winter with the tail tents still on. Heard from an eyewitness the aircraft became airborne and began climbing rapidly before the pilot used power to arrest the ascent. Made a (lucky) landing on remaining runway, took the tents off, turned around and went off the other runway.
To answer your question, it always surprises me how I see so many people hop in without checking anything. Now I remember flight school where we spent 20 minutes checking every flap pushrod bearing and the overall condition of the rivets, etc., which is a tad overboard. (How about a quick 50-hr inspection before we go flying?)
With the above story, (I know it is true he left with the tents on I just can't personally confirm the details) that guy is one lucky bugger. I can't say for a second I do the walkaround that was taught way back when in school but I do, without fail, check my a/c starting at my door and working in a circle:
PITOT TUBE - cover off, not obviously plugged
FUEL STRAINERS - clear, bright, clean, BLUE, etc.
AILERON / FLAP (PORT) - general condition from what you can tell by looking at it / fiddling
LANDING GEAR (PORT) - general condition, tire pressure, brake hose
GEAR WHEEL WELL - clean, inner workings show no red fluid
STATIC PORT (PORT) - clean
BAGGAGE DOOR - closed, locked
TAIL - control surface general condition, elevator trim pushrod secure ( a known problem is they come loose on my a/c)
STATIC PORT (STARBOARD) - clean
AILERON / FLAP (STARBOARD) - general condition from what you can tell by looking at it / fiddling
LANDING GEAR (STARBOARD) - general condition, tire pressure, brake hose
GEAR WHEEL WELL - clean, inner workings show no red fluid
LANDING GEAR (NOSE) - general condition, tire pressure, doors secure
PROPELLER - general blade condition, no red fluid at hub, area clear of rocks and debris
OIL FILLER CAP - on (heck of a mess otherwise)
OIL - quantity
COWLING - no obvious obstructions
TURBOCHARGER INTAKE - no obvious obstructions
CABIN / AVIONICS AIR INTAKE - no obvious obstructions
BELLY - no unexplained fluids
FUEL - quantity, caps on
TAKE A STEP BACK - have an overall look - you might see that seatbelt hanging out the door (that does remarkable damage if missed) or that you aren't still chocked, tied down or have the tents still on.
That walkaround takes me about a minute to complete - nothing fancy just general checking. Put me on floats and things change a bit with what can be checked within reason but I check as much as I can plus floats, cables, struts, pulleys, etc. Again - only a minute. How can anyone justify "hopping in" and going? Consequences are too high!!!
Anyone think I missed anything?
Last edited by jjal on Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Read about a fellow who failed to take the tail tiedowns, which consisted of 75 lbs of cememt bocks with a chain, of of the tail hook on his Bonanza and flew it from Bahamas to Florida. Says it was a bit tail heavy and had a slight vibration but flew OK.
Knew of a guy in Regina back in the late 60's who owned a Commanche 180. Parked it in the grass in October and never touched the airplane till late May every year and every year he would come out, jump start the airplane and fly away. No walk around, no nothing. Even forgot to close the door one fall. Took off from a pasture with the electric fence charger still hooked up. Used an electric fence charger hooked up to the airplane to keep cows from scratching their ass on his airplane. Needless to say, the airplane was a mess.
These guys must have hoseshoes up their ass. Dumb luck will take you a long way because smarts they do not have.
I have also had a right seater drain the batteries doing a pre-flight and still forgot something.
It takes all kinds to make the world go around.
Knew of a guy in Regina back in the late 60's who owned a Commanche 180. Parked it in the grass in October and never touched the airplane till late May every year and every year he would come out, jump start the airplane and fly away. No walk around, no nothing. Even forgot to close the door one fall. Took off from a pasture with the electric fence charger still hooked up. Used an electric fence charger hooked up to the airplane to keep cows from scratching their ass on his airplane. Needless to say, the airplane was a mess.
These guys must have hoseshoes up their ass. Dumb luck will take you a long way because smarts they do not have.
I have also had a right seater drain the batteries doing a pre-flight and still forgot something.
It takes all kinds to make the world go around.
The average pilot, despite the somewhat swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
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grammar boy
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I know of a Caravan that took off with the tail still tied to a tire filled with cement. 
Some farmer off the end of the runway in Sarnia must have been surprised the next spring when he took the tractor out for a toot in the field...
Some farmer off the end of the runway in Sarnia must have been surprised the next spring when he took the tractor out for a toot in the field...
"Listen brain, I don't like you and you don't like me, so let's just get through this one thing and I can go back to killing you with beer"
jjal wrote:
Actually, jjal, I think you may just have tomuch in there.
If items dont apply to the particular aircraft you are checking, then one elimitaes them mentally, and pretty soon other items are elimated.
Most, if not all AFM's have the checklist item in them. I think a person should follow them ..As to a generic checklist like you posted..well that is one of the things that is wrong...not all a/c are the same...and some have pacularities that are important walkaround items.
One of the fundamental problems with walkarounds is the way they are generally taught. Instructor demonstrates. Instructor supervises one or two. Instructor tells student to 'do the walkaround, I'll be out in a minute"
Now what does that say to the importance of the walkaround when the instructor does not go out every third or fourth time to watch the walkaround...
Pretty soon our student is a pilot and, like all new pilots pays lip service to the importance of the walkaround. but, one day in a hurry, an item or two only gets cursory inspection....and nothing comes of it...the curse of substituting luck for experience is starting. Pretty soon. No walkaround, and as long as luck holds out all is well.
For the commericial pilots, the problem is different as they become to familiar with the aircraft, getting into and out of it several times a day..Pretty soon..the curse of luck comes calling. To complicate this issue, many companies who do a large number of short legs per day, only want a full run up done first thing in the morning.
And lastly, on my new years rant, comes the question of what do you do if you find something wrong...Many pilots check things, find them lacking, and then ignore them because while they were taught to check stuff they were never told what to do if it was not as it should be....
Anyone think I missed anything?
Actually, jjal, I think you may just have tomuch in there.
If items dont apply to the particular aircraft you are checking, then one elimitaes them mentally, and pretty soon other items are elimated.
Most, if not all AFM's have the checklist item in them. I think a person should follow them ..As to a generic checklist like you posted..well that is one of the things that is wrong...not all a/c are the same...and some have pacularities that are important walkaround items.
One of the fundamental problems with walkarounds is the way they are generally taught. Instructor demonstrates. Instructor supervises one or two. Instructor tells student to 'do the walkaround, I'll be out in a minute"
Now what does that say to the importance of the walkaround when the instructor does not go out every third or fourth time to watch the walkaround...
Pretty soon our student is a pilot and, like all new pilots pays lip service to the importance of the walkaround. but, one day in a hurry, an item or two only gets cursory inspection....and nothing comes of it...the curse of substituting luck for experience is starting. Pretty soon. No walkaround, and as long as luck holds out all is well.
For the commericial pilots, the problem is different as they become to familiar with the aircraft, getting into and out of it several times a day..Pretty soon..the curse of luck comes calling. To complicate this issue, many companies who do a large number of short legs per day, only want a full run up done first thing in the morning.
And lastly, on my new years rant, comes the question of what do you do if you find something wrong...Many pilots check things, find them lacking, and then ignore them because while they were taught to check stuff they were never told what to do if it was not as it should be....
Walkarounds are an absolute must before every flight. However the level of detail on a walkaround varies.
Any time an aircraft has been worked on by maintenance, any time an aircraft has been sitting for an extended period of time, any time an aircraft is new to you, or if there is any other reason to suspect the aircraft may not be in the same condition you left it do a full walkaround following the AFM checklist and adding other items as experience dictates.
First flight of the day do a full walkaround. This perhaps should be by following the AFM checklist but for most of us who are familiar with our aircraft it is simply a detailed check of everything on the airplane which we know can go wrong.
Every other flight of the day as an absolute minimum WALK AROUD THE AIRPLANE. Even if it is just a quick walk with just the eyeballs making sure nothing has fallen off and no keener rampie has put chocks in when you were unloading pax.
In addition, every time you are on the ground is a great opportunity to check props, tires, oil, ect. It may not be expedient to take advantage of this opportunity but you should take advantage of it most of the time.
Lastly a note on doing proper walkarounds. If afterwards your hands are still clean, you are not doing it right. Things should move in the direction they are supposed to and should not move in the directions they are not supposed to. In order to make sure things are moving or not moving you need to move or try to move them. Lubricants on moving parts collect dirt so they get dirty. All engines and landing gear get particularly dirty, and if you are doing a proper job of checking them you will get dirty too.
Any time an aircraft has been worked on by maintenance, any time an aircraft has been sitting for an extended period of time, any time an aircraft is new to you, or if there is any other reason to suspect the aircraft may not be in the same condition you left it do a full walkaround following the AFM checklist and adding other items as experience dictates.
First flight of the day do a full walkaround. This perhaps should be by following the AFM checklist but for most of us who are familiar with our aircraft it is simply a detailed check of everything on the airplane which we know can go wrong.
Every other flight of the day as an absolute minimum WALK AROUD THE AIRPLANE. Even if it is just a quick walk with just the eyeballs making sure nothing has fallen off and no keener rampie has put chocks in when you were unloading pax.
In addition, every time you are on the ground is a great opportunity to check props, tires, oil, ect. It may not be expedient to take advantage of this opportunity but you should take advantage of it most of the time.
Lastly a note on doing proper walkarounds. If afterwards your hands are still clean, you are not doing it right. Things should move in the direction they are supposed to and should not move in the directions they are not supposed to. In order to make sure things are moving or not moving you need to move or try to move them. Lubricants on moving parts collect dirt so they get dirty. All engines and landing gear get particularly dirty, and if you are doing a proper job of checking them you will get dirty too.
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floatpiperdriver
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I suppose I should have said that was a walkaround that *i* do and isn't generic, it is for my a/c type. It wasn't meant to be a replacement for the AFM checklist, in fact it is pretty close to my afm's list and I didn't intend to mislead anyone otherwise. I just thought I would post to demonstrate that the "saw a guy get in and take off" isn't necessarily normal - or at very least I don't pull stuff like that.Actually, jjal, I think you may just have tomuch in there.
If items dont apply to the particular aircraft you are checking, then one elimitaes them mentally, and pretty soon other items are elimated.
Most, if not all AFM's have the checklist item in them. I think a person should follow them ..As to a generic checklist like you posted..well that is one of the things that is wrong...not all a/c are the same...and some have pacularities that are important walkaround items.
Happy landings
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floatpiperdriver
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Not necessarily - I had a gasket fail in the oil filler cap and that tiny little orafice was enough to cause a great deal of concern as oil went all up the windscreen, down the side of the airplane, all over the engine, etc. Now this was a TSIO-540 which may puke more than the O-360 but it sure made a mess.floatcessnadriver wrote:probably got distracted by something shiny during that part of his walkaround.
The only shiny thing that distracted me is how the sun glistened on the oil slick streaming back on the cowling...
Working at a FBO I've seen pilots hop in their plane that's been sitting for hours, sometimes days, without doing a walkaround. I can never understand why someone would risk their life, or the life of any passengers, or anyone that they may crash into. Seems like such a smiple thing to do. It gives me a good incentive to make sure I put the fuel caps on properly!
The operator of a very fine air service from Ft. Smith N.W.T. was killed @ Villenueve airport a few years ago. He bought a single Otter from Sweden and the airplane was shipped over in a box. A mechanic was hired to reassemble the airplane and hooked the ailerons up wrong. The airplane crashed on the test flight. There is a picture of the airplane, taken the day before, sitting in front of the hangar with full flaps but both ailerons were also drooped. A van owned by TC is sitting beside the airplane. No body checked.
The average pilot, despite the somewhat swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
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Siddley Hawker
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cloudcounter
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Interesting accounts.
Havn't done many walkarounds but I am mechanically minded so in my short studant stint [ 6 hrs- I ran out of money , memory and youth ] , I discovered on 172's one loose fan belt, one jammed starter and bird junk on top of a cylinder not to mention lots of loose screws that most people shrugged at.
The flying school went belly up after crashing a couple of float planes in our wacky windy mountain river terrain where they call a river a lake till they find out otherwise.
Dumb mistakes come free - lets hope we are all Irish enough to miss the consequences.
cc
Havn't done many walkarounds but I am mechanically minded so in my short studant stint [ 6 hrs- I ran out of money , memory and youth ] , I discovered on 172's one loose fan belt, one jammed starter and bird junk on top of a cylinder not to mention lots of loose screws that most people shrugged at.
The flying school went belly up after crashing a couple of float planes in our wacky windy mountain river terrain where they call a river a lake till they find out otherwise.
Dumb mistakes come free - lets hope we are all Irish enough to miss the consequences.
cc
Koran 5:33
The Punishment for those who oppose Allah and his messenger is : Execution or Crucifixion or the cutting off of ..snip
If Truth be not your goal,
you have achieved your gaol.
http://www.biblicalzionist.com/index.htm
The Punishment for those who oppose Allah and his messenger is : Execution or Crucifixion or the cutting off of ..snip
If Truth be not your goal,
you have achieved your gaol.
http://www.biblicalzionist.com/index.htm
Now here's an even better question for y'all. Everyone is so quick to critizie a pilot who doesn't do a walk around before he goes flying, but then these same people have no problem after a day of flying just hoping in thier cars and driving off.
My question is this, how many of you actually walk around your car/truck/van before you drive it?
My question is this, how many of you actually walk around your car/truck/van before you drive it?
Different kinds of pre-flight inspections are required at different times.
The most thorough pre-flight inspection is required on an aircraft which has just come out of maintenance. An aircraft which has just been worked on is the most untrustworthy of all.
Next is an aircraft which has been sitting for a period of time.
Next is an aircraft which hasn't been flown yet today.
Next is an aircraft which you haven't flown today.
Next is an aircraft which you just finished flying a few minutes ago.
Each of the above require different depths of pre-flight inspections.
Let's say you're flying for 4 hours with 3 stops, each after an hour of flight. At the intermediate stops, you probably don't have to worry about the flight controls being rigged backwards, for example. If you disagree with the above, let's say you have the choice of doing the 4 hour flight non-stop ... would you stop every hour to inspect the aircraft again?
Most of us that live in the real world would not.
Anyways, it probably doesn't matter. Most pilots don't catch anything anyways on the pre-flight.
The most thorough pre-flight inspection is required on an aircraft which has just come out of maintenance. An aircraft which has just been worked on is the most untrustworthy of all.
Next is an aircraft which has been sitting for a period of time.
Next is an aircraft which hasn't been flown yet today.
Next is an aircraft which you haven't flown today.
Next is an aircraft which you just finished flying a few minutes ago.
Each of the above require different depths of pre-flight inspections.
Let's say you're flying for 4 hours with 3 stops, each after an hour of flight. At the intermediate stops, you probably don't have to worry about the flight controls being rigged backwards, for example. If you disagree with the above, let's say you have the choice of doing the 4 hour flight non-stop ... would you stop every hour to inspect the aircraft again?
Most of us that live in the real world would not.
Anyways, it probably doesn't matter. Most pilots don't catch anything anyways on the pre-flight.
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flyinggirl
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Cat Driver
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"DHC-4 takeoff with control lock engaged.
Now, is that a walkaround item or a pre-takeoff checklist item?"
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The dhc-4 item was & is a whole another story. That aircraft underwent a turbo prop conversion & there has been speculation on the rigging & set up of the internal gust lock/throttle lever arrangement.
I certainly don't know all the facts on this one so I won't comment much more than that.
Now, is that a walkaround item or a pre-takeoff checklist item?"
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The dhc-4 item was & is a whole another story. That aircraft underwent a turbo prop conversion & there has been speculation on the rigging & set up of the internal gust lock/throttle lever arrangement.
I certainly don't know all the facts on this one so I won't comment much more than that.
