Fedex, Purolator, and CargoJet

Troubleshot · Post by **Troubleshot** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:30 pm

when these guys wear out their 727's what will they use next? any rumors, thoughts?

oates76 · Post by **oates76** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:39 pm

FedEx has already stated they will go with the 757 to replace the 727. It'll sad to see the smokers go.

Or are you talking about Morningstar?

Pygmie · Post by **Pygmie** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:57 pm

Are you talking about Flightcraft and Morningstar? Or FedEx down in the states?

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:02 pm

Yes he is, my prediction is sadly the 757.

Personally I think a 737-800 modified for cargo ala the 200 series would be the perfect transition equal size and carrying capability. The 757 is large than the 727, and may not be as economical.

Troubleshot · Post by **Troubleshot** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:11 pm

yes, all canadian companies

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:21 pm

Why is the 57 a logical step after the 27? A First Air FE told me a year or so ago that they were considering the 57 to replace their 27's. Is the cargo capacity similar or something?

asdfasd · Post by **asdfasd** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:50 pm

The 757 can carry 3 more cans than the 727, fuel burn YHM - YWG almost the same, 757 cost 18 million plus cargo door installation, , 727 1-3 million. Won’t be any changes in Canada in my opinion.

Dash-Ate · Post by **Dash-Ate** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:09 pm

I see UPS DC-8s kickin around YYZ sometimes. Now that is old school.
Before my time...

Edit: congrats to me on my 200th post

200hr (post) wonder again

CYOX · Post by **CYOX** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:21 pm

KFCpilot wrote:The 757 can carry 3 more cans than the 727, fuel burn YHM - YWG almost the same, 757 cost 18 million plus cargo door installation, , 727 1-3 million. Won’t be any changes in Canada in my opinion.

Fuel burn is 13% less on the 57, plus you get 3 extra cans and 350 cube in the belly. You get rid of one pilot/FE and 1 engine thus maintenance costs are much less on the 57, MDR is much better enabling better utilization. When the dreamliner starts rolling off the line a 57 airframe will be had for 5.0 million. Many years ago there were people who said that the 727 will never replace the DC6 freighter. KFCpilot, why is Barry building a 757 hangar???

YVRflyer · Post by **YVRflyer** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:27 pm

18 million doesn't buy you a B757 anymore. There is hardly any available for sale or lease at the moment for a reasonable price. Boeing's B757 Cargo conversions with the cargo door plug are close to $40 million for the airplane. All the other proposed conversions for the B757, which is cutting a cargo door a la B727, needs a structural bulkhead by the 1L door (like the B727-200) which would waste space for 1 can.

The B757 is not very economical to operate on the typical 2 - 2 1/2 hour sector Canadian domestic cargo operators flying. A B757 makes sense on 4 1/2 hour or longer sectors. Plus a typical daily utilization of minimum 10 flight hours is necessary to offset capital cost. This would be probably the main hurdle for a fleet renewal as the typical cargo operator in Canada don't operate on weekends and usually utilizes it's aircraft around 6 flight hours a night.

I doubt there will be any B757 replacement for the B727 soon as there is still a high demand for these aircraft with passenger airlines.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:23 am

I'm telling you 737-800 frieghter version, hasn't been done yet, but it sure as hell could... I'm just guessing but the 737-800 would I think hold pretty close to the same as the 727, long fuse, plus even bigger under bellies.

sinjin · Post by **sinjin** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:02 am

From a relable sorce, FedEx is looking to replace there 727 with 757. this is a long term change over and will start to take place in the U.S. very soon. As for morningstar the do not own the FedEx planes that they operate the are operating them in Canada for FedEx and yes they are slated to be switched over as well. The FedEx loads are getting bigger all of the time in Canada and the bigger aircraft would mean that they would not have to put cans on Cargo Jet to move them as often as they do now.

ScudRunner · Post by **ScudRunner** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:31 am

Just on cost alone I think the 727 isnt going anywhere anytime soon. As stated before the re-engined DC-8's are still going strong. Replacing the 27 with the 57 might be easier said than done the 757 is still an extemly popular aircraft.

linecrew · Post by **linecrew** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:51 am

co-joe wrote:Why is the 57 a logical step after the 27?

Boeing actually designed the 757 to be a replacement for the 727.

The 757's MTOW is somewhere in the range of 250,000-270,000 lbs. vs the 727's 200,000ish.

TAT · Post by **TAT** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:20 am

Actually most of the 757's that would be had by canadian company's would be Freighter conversions. These will not give you the extra 3 positions you actually loose 1 or 2 positions in the process because of the position of the L1 door.

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:56 am

I've seen Cascade in YXX do a few 57 conversions. I think they were mainly for US companies, but it's certainly happening. There's no doubt the 27 will hang around for a while, but eventually it will need to be replaced. Can't fix 'em forever...

Pugster · Post by **Pugster** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:18 pm

TAT wrote:Actually most of the 757's that would be had by canadian company's would be Freighter conversions. These will not give you the extra 3 positions you actually loose 1 or 2 positions in the process because of the position of the L1 door.

Yup. I've heard that only 2 extra cans can go in. Seems like a lot of $$$ for 2 extra cans. If I had to bet on anything, it would be the slow introduction of 767s into the fleet for the longer haul domestic runs. Now that's an increase in capacity!

The 727 isn't going anywhere for a while folks...IMHO the only thing that will get rid of it is increasing noise abatement requirements. And at under 5 million with doors and floors installed, how can you go wrong?

linecrew · Post by **linecrew** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:47 pm

Pugster wrote:Seems like a lot of $$$ for 2 extra cans.

I'm sure there must be a lot of factors that make it a good choice...cost of maintenance and fuel for starters.

Pugster · Post by **Pugster** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:57 pm

linecrew wrote:
Pugster wrote:Seems like a lot of $$$ for 2 extra cans.
I'm sure there must be a lot of factors that make it a good choice...cost of maintenance and fuel for starters.

Yup, but fuel (at least at one of the mentioned carriers) is paid for by the courier company, not the contract provider.

YVRflyer · Post by **YVRflyer** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:59 pm

The Canadian cargo industry is totally different than the US one. The main difference is that most B727 routes are domestic cargo routes (Flightcraft/Morningstar) and operate on an East - West corridor 200 miles wide, parallel to the US border. So most sectors are stop and go while in the US cargo works on a hub and spoke system making the B757 a good choice as a B727 replacement for FedEx with longer sectors and higher utilization. Also, Canadian cargo operators like Flightcraft (Purolator) and Morningstar (FedEx) operate domestic only, while the US counterparts like FedEx, UPS, DHL operate also international routes, with sector lengths ideal for the B757. That said the B757 freighter would be probably a viable choice in the future for Flair Airlines with their Toronto - Cuba run if the loads would support a daily return flight and prices for the B757 are becoming more affordable.