The search was complicated by the failure of the Electronic Locator Transmitter (ELT) carried by the Cessna.
Another failed ELT. Isn't TC ever going to do anything about this problem? How many lives could have been saved in the last ten years if TC had dealt with this problem? As far back as 1978 the NTSB did a special investigation into the failure of ELT's. Certainly, if the ELT had worked, at least on occupant (who wore a floater coat and drowned slowly less than five miles from his home) of CGAQW which disappeared Feb 28, 2005 would have been saved, maybe all five - they did all get out of the plane before it sank.
When are we going to wake up and start demanding that something is done to protect pilots and passengers from this particular danger?
cpl_atc wrote:Would it be possible to designate an emergency frequency somewhere in the AM range, outside of that which is used for commercial radio and/or NDBs? Then you're not relying on line-of-sight, and you could make use of an AM-style antenna that can be coiled within the orange box itself, instead of relying on the flimsy ones used today.
Obviously this would require huge international coordination and a huge expense for the installed base. Other than that, is there a technical reason why this hasn't been done? Can AM signals be pinpointed via satellite in the same way 121.5 can be?
Seems to me there must be something that would already fit the bill - what do boats use? They must use something that still works underwater too.
This should not have been a difficult or expensive problem to solve.
Boats use a system called EPR I believe. Not sure what that stands for. A freind told me about them. They sit in a rack on top of the boat. They can be set off manualy or set on auto. They will only turn on in auto if taken out of the case and turned right side up. They are designed to work floating in the water. I do not believe they are very effective under water. Some have ropes tied to them and the boat others are just lose in the cradle.
Boats use something very similar to the ELT. It is the Electronic Position Indicating Radio Beacon. Some are more advanced than aviation as they have a GPS receiver built in to the system that once activated will transmit the lat/long of the beacon along with the standard tones of the ELT on 121.5 and some on 243. Most of the new EPIRBs are 406 MHz frequency beacons allowing better accuracy for the sattelites plus the data transmission of position(if equipped).
But all that being said most boats either do not have an EPIRB(too expensive unless you are a commercial vessel operating within certain requirments - then it is mandatory) or they have the old style EPIRBs that are just like the ELTs - transmitting only on 121.5 and 243.
I am not sure if they are developing these for aircraft yet but is would be a good idea.
"I don't understand (and have never understood) why ELT's are still operating in the MHz frequency range, which requires line-of-sight for transmission/detection. As noted above, it seems like so often ELTs are rendered useless when the antenna shears off during the crash.
Would it be possible to designate an emergency frequency somewhere in the AM range, outside of that which is used for commercial radio and/or NDBs? Then you're not relying on line-of-sight, and you could make use of an AM-style antenna that can be coiled within the orange box itself, instead of relying on the flimsy ones used today.
Obviously this would require huge international coordination and a huge expense for the installed base. Other than that, is there a technical reason why this hasn't been done? Can AM signals be pinpointed via satellite in the same way 121.5 can be?"
From a Search and Rescue point of view (I have been involved in SAR for 8 years on the marine side on the West Coast) the range of kHz over MHz frequencies is great but the accuracy is horrible. Magnetic distubance, weather, electrical interference, day/night atmospheric affects can throw the signal way off causing skip and refraction. There are times the signal would bounce around the world. We used to hear distress calls from vessels on the far side of the Pacific or from the Atlanticbut they can come in from any direction depending on how they skipped either over the poles or across the ocean. For sattelites trying to pick up these transmissions they would be overloaded as they would pick up 75% of the transmissions around the world at the same time. Line of sight is better for accuracy as it limits the event horizon and restricts the area to be searched from the area of the surface of the earth down to a few thousand square miles and then less depending on sattelite passage. With the pass of 2 or more sattelites they can get a pretty good picture of the search area. Hope this helps a little.
Hey North Shore, your timing on the comments you made are not approriate at this time. Maybe show a little class, and just think about your freinds and familly at times like this.
Scuba, from what do you infer that I am classless about this? I made a comment about it being sad that a fatal accident happened so close to the beginning of the year, (thus the )and then followed it with a bit more about what seemed to be the cause - pushing the wx, and how it's not worth it. Sorry if it seemed flippant - it certainly wasn't meant to be so.
My sincere condolences to the family and friends of the victims of this accident.
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Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
)and then followed it with a bit more about what seemed to be the cause - pushing the wx, and how it's not worth it. Sorry if it seemed flippant - it certainly wasn't meant to be so.
