ACPA-ALPA meeting

[2low]

Looks like that Psychoanalysis test is a pure waste of time. Don't you think?

[Dark Helmet]

ddigler I don't know if you work at AC or not, I am assuming that you don't

Socrate wrote

I actually agree with bottom of the list but the line has to be drawn soon AC is hiring guys like crazy and every month is another 20 ahead of me that don't have to be.


Another one from Socrate

Jazz List

ALPA on the top and ACPA on the bottom used for Jazz's aircraft

Air Canada List
ACPA on the top and ALPA on the bottom used for Air Canadas' aircraft

With all new hires going on to a third list.

With this scenario all pilots would be protected at both companys.


You seem bitter to be at Jazz. Why don't you just go at AC and be happy. New hires at AC got their credentials straight and probably said no to Jazz cuzz they wanted to go mainline. I don't deserve your third list or to be below you in any way to make you happier.

FYI, There have been people who turned down Jazz, only to be PFOed by mainline, and there were people who accepted Jazz only to be called by mainline (for an interview and sometimes even a job) and had to turn them down because they went to Jazz. Your point about holding out for mainline is not as simple as you make it out to be.

Do you know Socrates or what type of experience he has. Unless you do, or already work at AC, I don't think you are in a position to say whether or not you DESERVE to be above or below him or anyone else for that matter.

My hope is to impress upon the more junior Jazz Pilots, that as each day goes by there are more OTS Pilots joining Air Canada. These are seniority numbers that I would like to see go to Jazz Pilots

Well I agree, Jazz pilot, like AC newhires are also qualified professionals that also deserve a honest position within their pilot group. Most of them are happy to learn and work too. Also, the proposals mentioned above would not take anything away form the CURRENT AC or Jazz pilots. It would improve things for the both groups as well as newhires.

Quite the attitude considering you are either a very very new FNG at AC, or not even work there yet.

[Hadji Ramjet]

Johnny, apologies if my last post came off as a diss, it wasn't meant as such. The point was, what you're asking may require a change to the Pension Act, it may not be something that can simply be negotiated between employers. A lot of ex-mil pilots went to feeders like Air Nova, Air Ontario et al, it's hard to think that if a buyback could be negotiated at no cost to the employer, it wouldn't have been done already.

[Johnny767]

Johnny, apologies if my last post came off as a diss, it wasn't meant as such. The point was, what you're asking may require a change to the Pension Act, it may not be something that can simply be negotiated between employers. A lot of ex-mil pilots went to feeders like Air Nova, Air Ontario et al, it's hard to think that if a buyback could be negotiated at no cost to the employer, it wouldn't have been done already.

No diss taken Hadji, if my memory (no guarantee) the Canadi>n buy-back was almost identical to the A/C. Since you can buy back Lay-off time and Leave of Absence time, why not Jazz time?

The reason it hasn't happened is simple. There hasn't been a will to look it.

Frankly, as a Civilian Pilot the Military buy-back is a piss-off. They get an exponentially far greater benefit than they remotely purchase. All after the government pays for there Flight Training etc.... subject of another thead....

As they remind me it is petty jealousy, partly correct.

In the Jazz case, any cost associated would have to be put squarely on the individual, not on the plan or the employer.

[KAG]

[thrust set]

Uncleron,

You wrote,:

"Does anyone know what the implications might be for someone under lou 18. Would having a reserved seniority at mainline still apply? "

Of course you are interested in finding out what will happen to your "reserved" number with the hopes that this does not affect your progression here at the mainline right? Are you in favor of talks between both sides ? Yes or No?. Can you live with the positive or negative implications this might have on your career? Remember your union is still ALPA and maybe a letter to B Shurry will get a better response.

My point of view is, I could care less what happens with the group over at Jazz with protected numbers if they all come over great, If by some chance they never make it here and the Global Solution (IRC) does go through then they will all be over here anyhow. If I was on the Jazz side and I think a familiar name is the committee chair ala Mr Di Cintio I would try and draw a line in the sand over seniority as quickly as possible. Meaning BOTL except it now. Draw up the lists immediately meaning whatever side you are on now that's where the number comes on the big list. Protected numbers over here in my opinion will not mean very much. Mr. Di Cinto is a smart man he understands that BOTL is a forgone conclusion. Why let approx 40 pilots move ahead of the entire Jazz list if we are moving towards some form of integrating the lists anyway? Sure we can argue these pilots interviewed before there were talks but times do change. Some still have a sour taste over CRA numbers from the past.

My advice try and come over here very soon if you can.

[Martin Tamme]

Does anyone know what the implications might be for someone under lou 18.
Would having a reserved senority at mainline still apply?

I realize this is speculation only, but would be interested in opinions, especially from Martin or Jacques.

Thanks

I have seen the updated ACPA Seniority list, which includes those Jazz pilots that have reserved numbers. To my knowledge, the new talks on Global Solution will not affect those that have an ACPA reserved seniority number.


P.S. Rob Weiser, who is a member of the ACPA Global Solution team, is also the ACPA LOU 18 Move-Up Coordinator. His job is to ensure that LOU 18 is being adhered to properly.

[socrates]

You seem bitter to be at Jazz. Why don't you just go at AC and be happy. New hires at AC got their credentials straight and probably said no to Jazz cuzz they wanted to go mainline. I don't deserve your third list or to be below you in any way to make you happier.

You guys make me sick. What a bunch of paranoid freaks. New hires at AC are qualified professionals that deserve an honest position within their pilot group. You should be glad to have new coworkers that will be happy to learn and work with you with a positive attitude. Nobody is taking anything away from you......geez

Go build a shack somewhere in the range and accept life's reality

Hey Ddiggler,

I'm sorry buddy, listen I just got off the phone with my union rep and requested the global solutions talks be ended immediately.

Air Canada needs guys like you who reject Jazz because they have there credentials straight and only apply to Air Canada.

He said "no problem..... done."

Can I ask a favour from you though?

Let us know when you get on at Air Canada, and if its o.k to start the Global Solution talks again. Cause it would only be fair to merge the lists after you got on. Thats the way aviation works it's all fair for everyone.

Thanks Buddy!

I said it before but I'll say it again I just want to retire in the left seat of 777 making $250 000 a year but if it ends of being a dash 8 making $120 000 so be it.

I'm not bitter about coming to Jazz, I love it here.

[uncleron]

Thanks Martin,I appreciate your input.I didn't think the GS talks would have any impact on LOU 18.

Thrust set I will try and answer all your questions,

1) Am I in favour of talks between both sides: YES I feel we are all pilots and if we can get our collective heads together I feel it will be a positive to the piloting profession in general as mgmt can't use one group against another.

2) "Protected numbers don't mean much": I would respectfully disagree.I personal know 4 former co-workers from Jazz that have successfully transitioned to mainline under lou 18 and all had numbers reserved for them with zero problems as per the lou's intent.

The LOU is an agreement between ACPA and AC...Jazz and ALPA have zero input.Jazz has no say other than when they release people and are the one's that benefit from the LOU.

3) Your advise is to transition as quickly as possible: unfortunately I have zero say as to when Jazz will release me.If I had any input I would be gone by now.Since I have no control over the situation I just have to give Jazz my best effort till I can come over.

4) Will this negatively affect my career? Not sure.AC has always been my goal and where I want to be. I feel fortunate that they have hired me and feel I should still be given the opportunity regardless of what ALPA negotiates.

Hope I answered all your questions.

[airway]

The best scenario that I have heard so far is 2 lists

Jazz List
ALPA on the top and ACPA on the bottom used for Jazz's aircraft

Air Canada List
ACPA on the top and ALPA on the bottom used for Air Canadas' aircraft

With all new hires going on to a third list.

With this scenario all pilots would be protected at both companys.

No need for a third list, as all new hires would go to the bottom of both lists.

For layoff protection:

The current AC/Jazz pilot ratio is approx. 2/1. This ratio should be maintained.