Conservatives lost my vote

corporate joe · Post by **corporate joe** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:58 am

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... y/National

Harper knowingly used biased scientific reports, as did Mr. Bush, to deny global warming to please the groups funding his party. Every single year he was in opposition he tried block every attempt the (corrupted) liberals made to address the issue.
Now, to see a slander campaign on tv against the liberals blaming them for not doing more for the environment while they were in power is absolutely ridiculous, considering he was the one preventing them from doing more.
The conservatives are bringing political debates in Canada to an all time low, making them similar to the ones in the US where you don't convince people to vote for you by telling them what you want to do, you convince them to vote against the other party. No wonder people are losing interest in politics and voting against the party they don't want, rather than the party they do want.
Do the conservatives have such a weak plan for the next 4 years that they would rather talk about why we shouldn't vote for the liberals rather than say why we should conservative?
Shameful.

corporate joe · Post by **corporate joe** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:21 am

cpl_atc wrote: Climate change is still a theory.

Is it? According to who?

cpl_atc wrote: Shameful is the fact that the Liberals did nothing about climate change while they overstayed their welcome in power. What Harper did is inconsequential.

Voting against the liberals to prevent them from passing regulations on the environment has the consequence of preventing them to act. Now, how is that inconsequential?

Don't want to defend the liberals here, I just want to point how ridiculous it is to blame a party for not doing something all while in opposition you are the main reason they were prevented from doing it. It's like not letting you put max power and then blaming you for not going fast enough.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:40 am

I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention, did someone say something important?

corporate joe · Post by **corporate joe** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:45 am

Hedley wrote:I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention

Yes, yes, we know, you've made that clear many times.

Glen Quagmire · Post by **Glen Quagmire** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:46 am

cpl_atc wrote: Shameful is the fact that the Liberals did nothing about climate change while they overstayed their welcome in power.

Meaningless personal observation

What Harper did is inconsequential[/b].

Whatever you need to tell yourself to justify your beliefs and/or affiliations.

Not to mention that it is only in the last 12 months that everyone has jumped on the climate change bandwagon, mostly because of a bad wind storm in Vancouver and a warm December on the prairies. Climate change is still a theory.

Complete drivel, none of which is true. I was going to provide links to help you out here, and no not to some poster's favorite sites like lifesite.net but to something with a little more sway like the Royal Society or maybe NASA. Anyway I have come to realize in my dealings with the ridiculous right that facts are a no go. Facts to the far right are like kryptonite to superman. So getting someone like you to read a factual scientific paper would be a waste of time, so why waste my time right?

Pull your head out of the sand.

I have to, I would drown if I stayed here with these rising water levels.

To quote from corporate joe, "read more, think less"

I love it

Skipper · Post by **Skipper** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:04 am

I vote that we wait it out and see what Harper has to offer. Once his term is up, we'll total everything up and compare it to the Liberals to see who has done the least amount of damage. What more can you ask for from a politician?

Glen Quagmire · Post by **Glen Quagmire** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:32 am

cpl_atc wrote: According to the definition of the word "theory". There are indications the climate is warming. The climate has warmed and cooled in the past. Man may or may not have something to do with the current warming trend. The theory proposed by some scientists, and adopted by the lemmings in society at large, is that this is being caused by greenhouse gases. There is no exhaustive proof as yet. Although I will grant you that it is rapidly becoming politically incorrect to raise any doubt about the validity of the theory, as the threads on this board have shown.

You are correct, climate change is a theory much like gravity is a theory or how flight is a theory, is flight real?
Some scientists? try most if not all. Here is a link on scentific consensus.
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/f ... /5702/1686
Lastly you are so brave, playing the victim card. Must be so hard to live in this reality based environment.

bmc · Post by **bmc** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:33 am

cpl_atc wrote:
Not to mention that it is only in the last 12 months that everyone has jumped on the climate change bandwagon, mostly because of a bad wind storm in Vancouver and a warm December on the prairies. Climate change is still a theory.

Pull your head out of the sand.

I'm in Switzerland. Equally screwed up weather on this side of Atlantic. It's not a Canadian provincial problem. It's a challenge telling people over here that it's a manifestation of a political party in Canada.

V1 Rotate · Post by **V1 Rotate** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:35 am

Harper is now makig his pseudo shift to the centre to win centrist votes. If he gets his majority we then will see the true face of his Conservative party. We are already seeing the US style campaign smear ads, even though no election has been called. His propaganda chiefs would make Goebbels proud.

Canada as a country cannot afford to give Harper a majority. A Conservative majority would only serve to furhter Americanize Canadian politics, virtually eliminating any public discourse about important issues. Harper, not unlike Bush would style himself as "The Decider"

2R · Post by 2R » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:36 am

Our neighbours are great enviormentalists they have installed solar panels and windmills for their grow ops .So the hippies will have a more green bud to ease themselves into nirvana

jjal · Post by **jjal** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:23 pm

just vote NDP and screw them both.

Stoptheworld · Post by **Stoptheworld** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:53 pm

Just a question, can anyone give an idea of how many coal fired power plants Canada has?

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:55 pm

2R wrote:Our neighbours are great enviormentalists they have installed solar panels and windmills for their grow ops .So the hippies will have a more green bud to ease themselves into nirvana

Now that's only common sense, since one of the major tools the cops use to find grow ops is escalated electricity usage. I've often thought that you need gas generators for grow ops in the city and windmills in the country. I wonder how long it'll be before druggies start major operations in the Lethbridge Pincher Creek area.

goates · Post by **goates** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:56 pm

Harper, not unlike Bush would style himself as "The Decider"

You mean like Chretien?

How is the Conservative's using US style attacks ads is any different from the many ads the Liberals have run before (police on every corner if Harper wins etc.)? Neither side is innocent here.

Man made global warming is still a theory, but with plenty of evidence to support it. Just like gravity is very much still a theory with lots of evidence. When it comes to science, nothing is ever proven 100% as there could always be something we don't know that will change how we think about it.

We could just, you know, do our best to quit pumping the atmosphere full of stuff we know is bad anyways. I don't know about anyone else but when you are driving back into your home town and it's covered with a reddish brown haze, you kinda have to wonder what you're breathing in everyday.

costermonger · Post by **costermonger** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:17 pm

goates wrote:How is the Conservative's using US style attacks ads is any different from the many ads the Liberals have run before (police on every corner if Harper wins etc.)?

The absence of an election is a pretty big one. Attack ads are unfortunately an accepted part of election campaigns, but do we really need to make them a part of day-to-day life?

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:20 pm

cpl_atc wrote:According to the definition of the word "theory". There are indications the climate is warming. The climate has warmed and cooled in the past. Man may or may not have something to do with the current warming trend.

Well if that's the definition of theory, you could argue that evolution is nothing more than a theory as well.

costermonger · Post by **costermonger** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:47 pm

cpl_atc wrote:The difference is Harper is quoting Dion's rivals and stating fact about the Liberals' record on Kyoto.

Which raises an interesting point.. What support do the Conservatives expect to garner from saying "look at how they didn't meet Kyoto's targets! Look! We wouldn't have even considered trying but look at how the Liberals didn't do something we wouldn't have agreed with anyway!"

What do they expect to accomplish? I wouldn't expect the Liberals to take Harper to task over his failure to outlaw same sex marriage.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:52 pm

Several years ago, scientific studies showed that eggs were bad(unhealthy) for you, then those studies done again at more funding showed them to be good, and then the did studies to find that meat was bad for you and then it was red meat and then it was this and now meat is good carbs are bad, and then.....

Anyways, climate change, happens, no friggin theory there, remember the "ice age" yeah, that's climate change, now whether climate change has an adverse effect on society/environment is the "theory." And that all of this change is because in the last 6 years we've used more cars that were less efficient and what have you and it isn't shear coincidence that the last 6 years "supposedly" according to "some" happen to have been the warmest years...

Which is funny, because 30 years ago, everyone was driving a cadillac, buick, those 10 ft huge autos that wre guzzling gas and somehow now when everyone switched to hybrids and civic's gas emmissions are higher and global warming is happening all of a sudden.. Interesting...

... · Post by **...** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:59 pm

Well them stiff neck have won mine. The Libs new guy DION is an idiot for stirring a call for an election.

Rick Mercer said it best last night in his rant.

http://www.cbc.ca/mercerreport/video_pl ... rant_jan30

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:07 pm

cpl_atc wrote:
goates wrote:How is the Conservative's using US style attacks ads is any different from the many ads the Liberals have run before (police on every corner if Harper wins etc.)? Neither side is innocent here.
The difference is Harper is quoting Dion's rivals and stating fact about the Liberals' record on Kyoto.

The Liberals, on the other hand, raised ridiculous scenarios that were not based on fact, purely as a scare tactic. That is the US-style. What Harper is doing is not US-style.

There is a difference.

What's really funny about those ads is that the Tories are likely to find themselves in court for copyright violation. It seems the copyright belongs to the media pool and permission is required to use any part of the debates in a commercial etc. Care to guess who never thought to get permission?

beechy · Post by **beechy** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:44 pm

Just a question, can anyone give an idea of how many coal fired power plants Canada has?

In comparison to the states......aproximately none......no canada does have some, but nothing to the number in the US.

Theory or not we should work to lower emissions....and to make them cleaner.....

It bugs me that harper already has ads on TV slamming Dion.....i find it funny how they simply repeat the same clips of him saying like three words.....such stupid ads.

costermonger · Post by **costermonger** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:05 pm

cpl_atc wrote:Dion has presented himself as the one to swoop in with his green cape and pretend he's going to save the environment. Problem is, he had ample opportunity to do so while he was Environment Minister. How many Canadians even remember that Dion was the Environment Minister? Probably very few. Hence, the ads make sense.

Why allow Dion the opportunity to portray himself to ignorant voters as an unblemished advocate against climate change when a couple of years ago he clearly was not?

Oh, sure, I understand why they're choosing to portray Dion in this manner, but I don't see the logic in trying to make a big deal out of the fact that they didn't accomplish something the conservatives were deadset against anyway. Have you seen the ads? The text that's put on the screen between clips of Dion and Ignatieff presents statistics that show how terrible the environment was under the Liberals. Nevermind that the Conservatives didn't think that very information was worth doing anything about.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:15 pm

beechy wrote:It bugs me that harper already has ads on TV slamming Dion.

How can that bug you? They have 150 million in their coffers and they'll spend it any way they want...

Glen Quagmire · Post by **Glen Quagmire** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:49 pm

cpl_atc

Lemming huh, can lemmings read books and change their views and opinions based on factual information?

I am calling you out on this one. Let us have a "fact off" of sorts. You provide me with five credible bits of information and the sources behind them that argue against global warming and I will do the same for the other side of the "discussion". It's an honest way to see who is full of shit and who isn't. Are you simply an opinion spewing blowhard or is there merit to your views? Same goes for me. I can start if you like just let me know. Or are you going to do as I predict and lash out like a dog backed into a corner?

Here we go

Dust Devil · Post by **Dust Devil** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:54 pm

cyyz wrote:
beechy wrote:It bugs me that harper already has ads on TV slamming Dion.
How can that bug you? They have 150 million in their coffers and they'll spend it any way they want...

What pisses me off is the conservatives have all this cash yet still call me twice a week at supper time asking me to donate more.

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