I am trying to get some stats on how many have been hired at AC in the past 8 mths without a degree. I myself was PFOd 6 mths ago and have started to see a trend in the CF pilots getting PFO'd that have no degree. We have on average had 20 yrs service and 4000-6000 hrs with glass cockpit time and a great deal of qualifications including Instrument Check Pilot, Instructor ratings, global experience and so forth. One would think that these qualifications would be enough to fill a few slots in the hundreds available at AC.
Given this, it seems that AC may be concentrating a great deal on degrees over experience. Perhaps this is the new way of hiring. Perhaps there are more failures, since a degree does nothing for your actual flying ability. Perhaps I need to spend more time on getting a degree and less time becoming a better aviator.
Hired without a degree?
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hercdriver
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hercdriver
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Its the way of the world...a degree is a rite of passage not necessarily related to what you learn. It is a requirement, filter, firewall if you will. You can get one when you graduate high school, or later, but the point is for most good jobs in this world, you need it. Recall please how the many who came after you to the CF must have felt having to get the "useless" degree to become an officer when you, purely due to timing, got in without one. Not saying it's right, but I don't feel sorry for you.
Well, I know a couple of people that have gotten on at AC within the last year that didn't have a degree. They had between 3000-7000 hours, with some heavy time, glass time and sched time. I also know a few really good drivers with the same qualifications and HAD the degree that got PFO'd. There doesn't really seem to be any rhyme or reason to who they're letting in and who they're passing up.
Last edited by confuzed on Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
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Treetopflyer
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richthofen
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Like Dockjock said a degree is a rite of passage.
If it is from a reputable University it suggests to the employer that you will be able to handle the difficult course. At a few thousand hrs we all fly about the same so the question is - what else do you have? Also, the degree requirement shouldn't be a surprise. It's been well established for years that if you want to fly for the majors you need one!
Do I agree with this policy? No
If it is from a reputable University it suggests to the employer that you will be able to handle the difficult course. At a few thousand hrs we all fly about the same so the question is - what else do you have? Also, the degree requirement shouldn't be a surprise. It's been well established for years that if you want to fly for the majors you need one!
Do I agree with this policy? No
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jim_from_texas
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beechjockey
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I was hired in June with no degree. ( year and a half of university completed, dropped out and started flying)
At the time I had 5000 hours, all turbo props. Was a check pilot and simulator instructor. My last position was ops manager for a cargo operation in Toronto.
Those who know me can keep their sarcastic comments to themselves
I think the degree helps but it has alot to do with your own personality and how you present yourself in the interview. The degree might help get your foot in the door, but if you are an ass, you probably are still not going to get hired. Instead of trying to get a degree at this stage, focus on going the extra mile for your company you work for. Get involved in training, help out with a safety program, apply for any CP or Operations positions that might be available. At this stage of the game, everybody has similiar qualifications and experience. Any extra qualifications that you can add to your CV can only help you out.
Good luck!!
At the time I had 5000 hours, all turbo props. Was a check pilot and simulator instructor. My last position was ops manager for a cargo operation in Toronto.
Those who know me can keep their sarcastic comments to themselves
I think the degree helps but it has alot to do with your own personality and how you present yourself in the interview. The degree might help get your foot in the door, but if you are an ass, you probably are still not going to get hired. Instead of trying to get a degree at this stage, focus on going the extra mile for your company you work for. Get involved in training, help out with a safety program, apply for any CP or Operations positions that might be available. At this stage of the game, everybody has similiar qualifications and experience. Any extra qualifications that you can add to your CV can only help you out.
Good luck!!
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richthofen
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clarification - majors is not limited to Canada.
A quote from http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos107.htm
"Although some small airlines hire high school graduates, most airlines require at least 2 years of college and prefer to hire college graduates. In fact, most entrants to this occupation have a college degree. Because the number of college-educated applicants continues to increase, many employers are making a college degree an educational requirement."
So JFT, your 100% right, it is hard to find actual airline stipulating college requirements. However, quotes like this and all the mags I read when I was preparing for this career said "go get a degree".
bastards!
A quote from http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos107.htm
"Although some small airlines hire high school graduates, most airlines require at least 2 years of college and prefer to hire college graduates. In fact, most entrants to this occupation have a college degree. Because the number of college-educated applicants continues to increase, many employers are making a college degree an educational requirement."
So JFT, your 100% right, it is hard to find actual airline stipulating college requirements. However, quotes like this and all the mags I read when I was preparing for this career said "go get a degree".
bastards!
The degree is becoming less important.
Recently, I was called for a reference check on a friend who was subsequently hired mainline. During this conversation Captain *****
informed me that the cache of qualified candidates with degrees has dwindled and is not a requirement. He also told me to tell my collegues
this. They will now focus on over 12,500 time or glass time and when they run out of those resumes, it will be multi pic time. This is how it is in the industry, it seems most companies have dropped the mins to coincide with the experience pool.
informed me that the cache of qualified candidates with degrees has dwindled and is not a requirement. He also told me to tell my collegues
this. They will now focus on over 12,500 time or glass time and when they run out of those resumes, it will be multi pic time. This is how it is in the industry, it seems most companies have dropped the mins to coincide with the experience pool.
I find it hard to believe that the experience pool has shrunk to the point where they don't have guys with jet time, degrees, experience on time over 12.5. I can think of at least 5 guys with those kind of credentials that want on. Some received the 6 month PFO letter and are in the process of reapplying. Some have never been called but it is inevitable that the phone will ring for qualified candidates.
Yes, minimums are exactly that, minimums. If you think you can get on with 1000 hours, think again. Every check mark you can put beside your application increases your odds and there are still lots of guys within Canada and abroad that want to get on with these check marks.
Yes, minimums are exactly that, minimums. If you think you can get on with 1000 hours, think again. Every check mark you can put beside your application increases your odds and there are still lots of guys within Canada and abroad that want to get on with these check marks.
[quote="yycflyguy"]I find it hard to believe that the experience pool has shrunk to the point where they don't have guys with jet time, degrees, experience on time over 12.5. I can think of at least 5 guys with those kind of credentials that want on. Some received the 6 month PFO letter and are in the process of reapplying. Some have never been called but it is inevitable that the phone will ring for qualified candidates.
Yes, minimums are exactly that, minimums. If you think you can get on with 1000 hours, think again. Every check mark you can put beside your application increases your odds and there are still lots of guys within Canada and abroad that want to get on with these check marks.[/quote]
The key is they want to get on, I didn't mean to say they were out of candidates with degrees. You said it yourself that you know some with 6 month PFO's. If there was 1000 applicants with a degree and only 20% make it through then 800 didn't. Keep in mind i got the info from someone who is part of the hiring process. I also wasn't saying that 1000 hrs would get you on, but to guys like myself, with 4500 hrs 3800 multi pic but no degree it looks alot better these days.
Yes, minimums are exactly that, minimums. If you think you can get on with 1000 hours, think again. Every check mark you can put beside your application increases your odds and there are still lots of guys within Canada and abroad that want to get on with these check marks.[/quote]
The key is they want to get on, I didn't mean to say they were out of candidates with degrees. You said it yourself that you know some with 6 month PFO's. If there was 1000 applicants with a degree and only 20% make it through then 800 didn't. Keep in mind i got the info from someone who is part of the hiring process. I also wasn't saying that 1000 hrs would get you on, but to guys like myself, with 4500 hrs 3800 multi pic but no degree it looks alot better these days.
