Float Plane take-off from land

max1090for2 · Post by **max1090for2** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:56 am

Hi, i'm an Australian float pilot, and a few of my work mates and I have been dicussing taking off in a straight float plane from a grass strip, and we couldn't agree as to what happens with directional control? Does it maintain the diection that you start because it creates a groove to run in or does it swing to the left? if so how effective is the rudder?

Any help would be appreciated because there is a few beers riding on it, and it isn't really something that gets done in Australia

beechy · Post by **beechy** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:19 am

Hey,

Um, you might get a better response from a more experienced float pilot.....but anytime i have heard of this being done, the plane is launched from a trolly that is towed behind a vehicle. I don't see a float plane sliding along grass fast enough to get off......then again maybe it can be done....

Bushav8er · Post by **Bushav8er** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:41 am

The grass has to be wet but not to the point of making the ground muddy. People have landed on wet grass ok, not sure about taking off but I'm sure it can be done. Speed would be the issue. Try flapless to start, get max speed then pull on full flap (if max is borderline TO speed) using careful pitch control, accelerate in ground effect, drop flaps slowly one notch at a time, continue.

Prior to any of this carefully scout the take off area for debris; rocks, pebbles, sticks etc and scout an area larger than you think is required. Also best cared out in early morning when temps are cooler.

(Info only, not intended as an endorsement or instruction)

twotter · Post by **twotter** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:48 am

I think you would be far better doing a dolly take-off. Many different ways to do this but here is an example..

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/water_aviation_video.htm

Never tried it myself, but it looks quite doable..

plane_nuts · Post by **plane_nuts** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:01 pm

see it done a few times on a 4 wheeled dolley lined up on the runway, once the plane is off the ground the dolley will just roll down the runway to a stop. If you are lucky the dolley will roll to a stop after taking out a few runway lights.

max1090for2 · Post by **max1090for2** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:39 pm

Thanks heaps for the replys, those dolly takeoffs look very interesting. Nice to get an insight as to how things are done in the float plane capital of the world. I don't think you would have a pilots licence for long if you tried that here!

Water off · Post by **Water off** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:23 pm

Years ago, I heard about a guy that used to get maintenance done at Delta Airpark for a Helio Courier on floats. They just wet the grass and had guys hold the tail and rock it up and down until it got sliding.

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:48 pm

I've landed in a ditch.. does that count?

I've watched a couple of dolly take offs... I've also seen pictures of guys landing and taking off on wet grass. It is do-able!

Cheers!

Boss Hawg · Post by **Boss Hawg** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:23 pm

When they delivered float Beavers from the factory at Downsview I'm pretty sure they used dollys. It wasn't towed by a truck though IIRC, the plane sat on it like an amphib but the dolly stayed on the ground after takeoff.

beechy · Post by **beechy** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:11 pm

i really want to land and take back off from a glacier one day.......hopefully a glacier on the side of a mountain.....that looks like fun!

Pratt · Post by **Pratt** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:16 pm

I've done the dolly thing a few times, works pretty slick, once you line up on the runway there is usually a locking pin to keep the forward swivelling wheels centered, which works most of the time, had to abort once when it wasn't staying centered, only took out 2 runway lights.

Once you have speed, away you go leaving the dolly behind, hopefully not taking out too many more lights.

As for the wet grass take offs, I have no idea how feasable it is, you would want to ensure a very carefully inspected area before trying it. Personally I have not heard of doing it this way, but doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

B18rules · Post by **B18rules** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:33 pm

Depends on what kinda plane. Super cub on wet grass works great. Havent had the balls to try the stoneboat yet and don't plan on it. 185 dont work to bad either. Just make sure you keep your beak into the wind and remember speed is your friend you don't want to let that thing touch after you get yer flyin

Edo · Post by **Edo** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:47 pm

Boss Hawg wrote:When they delivered float Beavers from the factory at Downsview I'm pretty sure they used dollys. It wasn't towed by a truck though IIRC, the plane sat on it like an amphib but the dolly stayed on the ground after takeoff.

The dolly didnt have bakes on it until one of the managers took a customer onto the runway to watch a takeoff, they drove out in a brand new car. the beaver took off and the cart ran right into the car

the cart got brakes installed

185_guy · Post by **185_guy** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:13 am

I've heard of guys doing it with J-3's. They said once they start to move, it'll go! Starting on wet, dew covered grass.
I got a pic of a 185 taking off from ice on floats. They said it was a bit of a run, but she went, and that was with a load!!

Dust Devil · Post by **Dust Devil** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:39 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYd8_4ZSGLQ

Dust Devil · Post by **Dust Devil** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:40 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYd8_4ZSGLQ

Ronner · Post by **Ronner** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:13 am

Here is a taylorcraft landing on the grass next to the runway
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62HKnM_1_wM

ettw · Post by **ettw** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:10 pm

A company I worked for a ways back would land our single Otters on the grass next to 22 in Ottawa...I guess the only thing you had to remember was to keep some power on once you stopped or it would fall hard back on the tails of the floats and that meant I spent more time in the float compartments dumping rivets.

I guess that gives anyone who knows me a time line....its been a LONG time since I could fit into ANY compartment on a set of Otter floats let alone the back one!

Cheers,

ETTW

Idriveplane · Post by **Idriveplane** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:44 pm

cool, was that laurentian air services?

Over the Horn · Post by **Over the Horn** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:21 pm

I've landed on dry grass no prob. just glassy it on and keep the controls full back once you touch down to keep from flipping over, but no sooner or risk stalling it on. the whole process is rather quick and over before you know it if you've got any float exp. it should be easy as for takin off only seen it done on dolly's or trailers never from grass, if you do use a dolly make sure you got good insuranse and the airport operator is kosher with it, if the brakes fail that sucker is going somewere fast

in the spring we use a trailer for that reason.

cessnafloatflyer · Post by **cessnafloatflyer** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:19 pm

Our salt water C-180 was stripped, etched and alodyned last month in Chilliwack with a landing on grass and I took off last week from the cart on Edos. Not a big deal, but a pull to the left until the RPMs got up to about 2200. No brakes on that one and as i pulled up hard at 70 kts a watched the cart go off the runway, onto the grass and wondered about the runway lights.
The AMO had the insurance...

Stay safe...

FlyYukon · Post by **FlyYukon** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:24 am

dolly takeoff??? I believe we use dump trucks here

Blakey · Post by **Blakey** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:05 am

Dust Devil wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYd8_4ZSGLQ

Ronner:

Here is a taylorcraft landing on the grass next to the runway
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62HKnM_1_wM

Same aircraft. You can tell by the registration. As in there isn't one! There is a mark on the bottom of the right float though.

Tui · Post by **Tui** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:24 pm

Actually, the very first Beaver take-off from Downsview was done on floats without a dolly. The dolly wasn't ready yet so they built two troughs (I can't remember how long) and filled them with lard. Lots and lots of lard. The Beav just sat on the two troughs and slid along on the lard. (The whole story is in the De Havilland Canada book.)

ski_bum · Post by **ski_bum** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:48 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjGsFu0j ... ed&search=

This ones nuts!