Do you think that is because TCCA has changed? Or do you think that might have anything to do with the way OTHER industries and government agencies have reacted to the history here?marktheone wrote:Aviation on the west coast has changed 100% in the last 2 years. There is a host of reasons ...
There is no problem here now. Pilot's are doing well money wise flying decent aircraft and moving up when they want to.
Aviation on the west coast has changed 100% in the last 2yrs
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Aviation on the west coast has changed 100% in the last 2yrs
Former Advocate for Floatplane Safety
Ah, Widow, I think Markster is absolutely right about TC improving 100% in the last two years.
Now, if it improves 100% again in each of the next two years, in only 10 years they should be up to a acceptable standard.
I wont comment on the reasons, as he stated there were a number of them. You could be bang on the money as to outside influences or whatever. I would like to think that TC just decided to do what is right.
I have to thank MarkTO for letting us know there are no problems now.
I would not have come to that conclusion on my own.
Now, if it improves 100% again in each of the next two years, in only 10 years they should be up to a acceptable standard.
I wont comment on the reasons, as he stated there were a number of them. You could be bang on the money as to outside influences or whatever. I would like to think that TC just decided to do what is right.
I have to thank MarkTO for letting us know there are no problems now.
I would not have come to that conclusion on my own.
When I think West Coast Aviation, I think 703. The only reason 703 operations on the west coast have changed is because of the shut down of Regency Express/Sonic Blue/International Express Air.
Instead of 2 big competitors (Sonic and Nav Air), the work is spread amongst many operators; Carson Air, Sunwest Aviation, Orca Airways, Eagle Air and Canadian Air Charters.
With Sonic gone, operators can afford to maintain their aircraft AND pay their pilots decent. Before, Nav Air crews made 60-120 a day on the navajo because their counter parts at Regency were willing to do the same work for 20 a day at a company that only spent half the money on maintenance, if that.
Lets not start the "Nav Air didn't maintain their aircraft either" debate. I've worked for 3 operators on the south side now and I can honestly say that I felt just as safe in those planes as I do in these, if not more.
Out of the 8 Navajos flying out of the Avitat, 5 are old Nav Air machines. On any given day, I can guarantee you that there is more stuff deferred or not working on these navajos now than at Nav Air. This is mostly to do with the fact that all the operators get contract maintenance. Therefore, things are generally left the way they are until "the next inspection." At the next inspection, the problems are troubleshot and "the parts ordered." Then the aircraft are put back online while they wait for the part to arrive. Usually the wait time is about as long as it takes for "the next inspection to be due."
I will also say that the 3 companies I have worked for have had the right intentions at the top. Or at least they have done a good job of making me feel that way. Maintenance has defiantly been the priority. The biggest problem I’ve seen is the maintenance organization contracted to work on the planes. This will probably change now that Canadian Air Charters has bought the organization. The problem with contract maintenance is that the more aircraft they can get in and out, the more money they make. Generally, you would just go to a different shop but the only other one is Lindair. Since all the companies now have relatively small fleets, Lindair will not give them the priority they need because of bigger contracts with bigger fleets.
The pay is defiantly much higher in most cases. Canadian Air Charter crews are making good money now compared to what it was like before. Still not as much as they should for the work they do, but it is good enough to live off of. Orca Airways captains are doing very well for themselves but the FO's sill make less than Nav Air FOs from what I hear. Carson Air pay is low compared to other metro guys in the country, Especially when you look at how much Carson works the guys.
When you look at the experience level of crews on the west coast, we are doing much worse than 2 years ago. There are turbine captains at Pasco and Carson flying to the interior of BC with much less interior experience and time on type compared to what it was like 2 years ago. In the Navajo world, the experience level has defiantly gone WAY down.
All that said, if you look at west coast aviation its about the same minus Regency Express plus higher wages. The only difference is that there are so many operators out of south CYVR that it is hard to really get a good idea of what they are like.
Instead of 2 big competitors (Sonic and Nav Air), the work is spread amongst many operators; Carson Air, Sunwest Aviation, Orca Airways, Eagle Air and Canadian Air Charters.
With Sonic gone, operators can afford to maintain their aircraft AND pay their pilots decent. Before, Nav Air crews made 60-120 a day on the navajo because their counter parts at Regency were willing to do the same work for 20 a day at a company that only spent half the money on maintenance, if that.
Lets not start the "Nav Air didn't maintain their aircraft either" debate. I've worked for 3 operators on the south side now and I can honestly say that I felt just as safe in those planes as I do in these, if not more.
Out of the 8 Navajos flying out of the Avitat, 5 are old Nav Air machines. On any given day, I can guarantee you that there is more stuff deferred or not working on these navajos now than at Nav Air. This is mostly to do with the fact that all the operators get contract maintenance. Therefore, things are generally left the way they are until "the next inspection." At the next inspection, the problems are troubleshot and "the parts ordered." Then the aircraft are put back online while they wait for the part to arrive. Usually the wait time is about as long as it takes for "the next inspection to be due."
I will also say that the 3 companies I have worked for have had the right intentions at the top. Or at least they have done a good job of making me feel that way. Maintenance has defiantly been the priority. The biggest problem I’ve seen is the maintenance organization contracted to work on the planes. This will probably change now that Canadian Air Charters has bought the organization. The problem with contract maintenance is that the more aircraft they can get in and out, the more money they make. Generally, you would just go to a different shop but the only other one is Lindair. Since all the companies now have relatively small fleets, Lindair will not give them the priority they need because of bigger contracts with bigger fleets.
The pay is defiantly much higher in most cases. Canadian Air Charter crews are making good money now compared to what it was like before. Still not as much as they should for the work they do, but it is good enough to live off of. Orca Airways captains are doing very well for themselves but the FO's sill make less than Nav Air FOs from what I hear. Carson Air pay is low compared to other metro guys in the country, Especially when you look at how much Carson works the guys.
When you look at the experience level of crews on the west coast, we are doing much worse than 2 years ago. There are turbine captains at Pasco and Carson flying to the interior of BC with much less interior experience and time on type compared to what it was like 2 years ago. In the Navajo world, the experience level has defiantly gone WAY down.
All that said, if you look at west coast aviation its about the same minus Regency Express plus higher wages. The only difference is that there are so many operators out of south CYVR that it is hard to really get a good idea of what they are like.
Well said drifter. I'd like to add that the forest industry has stepped up their 'supervision" of the 703 ops they contract. This has forced two companies I know of, including the one partly responsible for my husband's death, out of business.
Former Advocate for Floatplane Safety
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safetywatch
- Rank 2
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- Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:17 pm
Why two years
Don't know why it is two years. Sonic Blue/Regency only stopped just over a year ago and Navair about 15 months ago. Sounds like some crude pro TC propoganda to me!! Good job you can't send smells over the net yet.
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safetywatch
- Rank 2
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:17 pm
Why two years
Don't know why it is two years. Sonic Blue/Regency only stopped just over a year ago and Navair about 15 months ago. Sounds like some crude pro TC propoganda to me!! Good job you can't send smells over the net yet.
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marktheone
- Rank 7
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- Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:07 am
- Location: An airplane.
Do I think it changed because of TC? Absolutely not. It changed due to economic circumstance and changes in the nature of the competition. Drifter maintenance is much better now than it was. Rates have improved though not entirely enough.
i guess there will always be someone crying the blues. Would those of you who still figure it's in "the toilet" like to back a year or two or do you think it might be better to see what the future holds?
Christ sakes quit whining and go fly.
i guess there will always be someone crying the blues. Would those of you who still figure it's in "the toilet" like to back a year or two or do you think it might be better to see what the future holds?
Christ sakes quit whining and go fly.
marktheone: Just in case you don't look at the other thread:
Top 9 Industry Death rates according to WorksafeBC, per 10,000 person-years:
Sawmills: 1.3
Heavy Manufacturing: 1.8
Building Construction: 2.5
Road Building and Related Work: 3.3
Farming: 4.1
Trucking: 4.8
Mining: 8.0
Logging: 9.3
Air Charter Service: 21.5
WorksafeBC Lost Lives: Work-related deaths in BC
Oh yes, and please review the number of pilot deaths for 2005 and 2006 in the "remembering pilots" thread. That death rate has increased. Things have definately NOT gotten better.
Top 9 Industry Death rates according to WorksafeBC, per 10,000 person-years:
Sawmills: 1.3
Heavy Manufacturing: 1.8
Building Construction: 2.5
Road Building and Related Work: 3.3
Farming: 4.1
Trucking: 4.8
Mining: 8.0
Logging: 9.3
Air Charter Service: 21.5
WorksafeBC Lost Lives: Work-related deaths in BC
Oh yes, and please review the number of pilot deaths for 2005 and 2006 in the "remembering pilots" thread. That death rate has increased. Things have definately NOT gotten better.
Last edited by Widow on Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Former Advocate for Floatplane Safety
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marktheone
- Rank 7
- Posts: 719
- Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:07 am
- Location: An airplane.
Widow,
I was referring to the economic situation. Not the accident rate. Hopefully we will see that decline again now.
There certainly are safer occupations out there. I would of course, as would everyone, do whatever I can to ensure that we don't get another rash of accidents.
Mark
I was referring to the economic situation. Not the accident rate. Hopefully we will see that decline again now.
There certainly are safer occupations out there. I would of course, as would everyone, do whatever I can to ensure that we don't get another rash of accidents.
Mark
