Hey Jazz...

[pika]

Good idea. Don't take a job today that gets you a few years experience because in a few years you won't be able to get a job. Brilliant.

[Fline@9]

C'mon Donald. You wouldn't do it if it was up for grabs at that point in your aviation career? I look back at when I had 250 hours and I gotta tell ya, I'd be all over it like white on rice. Even knowing the fact I'd have to take the heat from the seniors.

[Double Wasp]

It makes sense money wise. Jazz is just doing what the bush operators have done for years. When they can't find qualified guys to work they lower their mins. No big deal. It also isn't surpirsing that they are not advertising this on the National news either. I am not accusing these new people of being incompetent, but who would like to hear that aunt Bessie is flyin on an airplane where the FO is younger than the wether's original candy is that has been stuck to the bottom of her purse since the 80's.
They are paying the same or less, to start, than what FO's are making up north. I am not talking the guys that are just about ready for upgrade to captain. I am talking the guys with fresh ink on their PPC's. So when nobody wants to apply because the paycut is too steep they just lower the mins.
Before anyone accuses me of being bitter let me inform them that I have not ever put in an application in for Jazz as the paycut was too much to take 5 years ago let alone today. Besisdes the wife is allergic to Toronto.
I would like to be the first to welcome Jazz into the Bush League.
DW

[Donald]

Fline and Pika..

I never said I wouldn't have jumped on it when I was at that stage. I was simply pointing out one possibility down the road.

I'm sure the rampies and newly checked out pilots from Skyward went through the same process when their company let them go.

In any case, I'm not overly surprised Jazz has gone this way. It was either lower the entrance qualifications or raise the salary. For their current situation, the former appears to cost less.

Who knows, pretty soon we could have our very own American-style regional airline!

[ragbagflyer]

I feel for all those guys that have worked their ass off to try and make it to the airlines. They are certainly getting the shit end of the stick. Personlly though I kind of get a kick out of this. It seems for a lot of people the part of flying they seek most is the part where you do the least amount of actual flying. Lucky for me it's the other way around. I want to work the aircraft as much as I possibly can. I've been strongly considering converting to rotary wing. This just pushes me further in that direction. I'd prefer to be in a segment of aviation that is driven by performance and skill. That way your accomplishments are a direct result the the work that you are capable of, not how much money you have, or who your daddy is. The way I see it this opens up the worthwhile segments of aviation (or at least what I consider the worthwhile segments) for those that really want them. But like I said, it is shitty for those that paid their dues. What's also bullshit is that the "top grads" are somtimes (but not always by any means) going to be the ass kissers who really bought into the flight college clique, and who untill know would have gotten a deserved does of reality when they had to go get that first job.

[ei ei owe]

After all's been said here, I just don't believe we'll ever see a direct entry college pilot. Nice publicity stunt but nahhhh. Besides, those Seneca students wouldn't settle for direct FO, they'd need direct Captain to really feel rewarded.

[gapper]

It makes sense to me. With all these new computer planes around now days, the only reason they have pilots up front is so the passengers don't get nervous.

[The Hammer]

It makes sense to me. With all these new computer planes around now days, the only reason they have pilots up front is so the passengers don't get nervous.

Yeah cause there's just a sooooo many computers in a Dash 8.(or even an RJ for that matter) Go back to FlightSim buddy

[Cat Driver]

A dash 8 would be exotic if it had GPS.

[beechpilot]

Well, I'm sure that the recent news about graduating students getting on direct with jazz is perhaps a little troublesome for the many pilots who have worked for several years and don't have the same opportunity....I must however remind them to recall just how proficient they were on everything from IFR procedures to engine failure drills upon graduation.  I think it makes perfect sense to hire great pilots who haven't developed poor habits yet out of college...we are the best in the industry, and the captains of the future.  Sorry to all those who will have to struggle for another 5-10 years just to be our FO's.
Cheers to beers

[beechpilot]

Just one more comment...I know some of the "great" pilot out there who have already paid their dues are ready to snap on me, but I must remind them that we are practically PPC'd coming out of Seneca as we have so much sim training on the RJ that we are more comfortable doing V1 cuts in that then we are doing 10kt cross winds in the 172. So, just because you're a captain on a 1900 or a metro, or even some crappy hawker up north, we are already trained and ready to on the RJ. Just something to consider before you get upset.
Cheers to beers.

[2low]

OK go to bed. It's way past your bed time.

[Kelowna Pilot]

Beechpilot is not a real Seneca student.

It's a wind-up post.

And if by some chance Beechpilot is serious, then I will state what I said earlier: I will no longer put my family on a Jazz aircraft. 20 year-old kids are not mature enough for that kind of responsibility.

[Fline@9]

Beechpilot... tone it down a bit son. Before you sound off that fast, V1 cuts in a sim and in anything other then a baron are not comparable.

How many circling NDB DME arcs in freezing drizzle at night with a 1/2 mile vis right down to minimums do the Seneca grads do IN THE REAL WORLD? None.

Things are very different when you trade the foggles in for real weather.

[Schlem]

Besides coming out of Seneca with zero flying experience, these 20 year old gear lever operators will have zero life expereince, and no idea what a real work ethic is all about. My wife and son won't be on any Jazz flight if this comes to fruition.

When the public finds out that 20 year old kids are behind the steel door operating the aircraft I'm sure hit will shit the fan.

BTW... if you find discomfort doing 10 knot xwind landings in a 172 then you should quit right now.

[Fline@9]

... we are practically PPC'd coming out of Seneca as we have so much sim training on the RJ that we are more comfortable doing V1 cuts in that then we are doing 10kt cross winds in the 172. So, just because you're a captain on a 1900 or a metro, or even some crappy hawker up north, we are already trained and ready to on the RJ....

Practically PPC'd (lol), trained and ready to go (lol- boy that 10 hours on the sim must be some training) and I especially love the crappy hawker comment.

You make yourself sound like a joke with a silver spoon jack. Initially I thought there might actually be enough maturity in a few grads to handle that kind of responsibility, you just proved you're not one of them. Grow up.

[Hedley]

I'm going to talk to our corporate travel department today about this - to avoid scheduling flights in Jazz whenever possible, because of safety concerns about their policy of hiring the least-qualified pilots that they can find (to cut costs).

Imagine if the same policy was applied to maintenance. Hey, let's cut down on the number of licenced AME's, we'll have fresh apprentices on co-op programs do all the work, and we'll give them recycled/repainted parts to do it with?

Just because Transport signs off on it, doesn't mean it's a good practice.

[MCA]

When the public finds out that 20 year old kids are behind the steel door operating the aircraft I'm sure hit will shit the fan.

and what about a 20-year-old ATC? i know a couple of them. do you feel unsafe?

[dream chaser]

Just curious to know from someone who actually works at Jazz and knows the contract. Everyone here is talking about how this would be cost effective to hire low-timers to fill the seats. Is the salary not fixed for everyone according to the collective agreement? And isn't this CA good until 2009? Atleast that was what I got out of the Global Solution thread which if happens will hopefully bring everyone's salary up not down. I certainly don't agree with the whole idea. I think there are still plenty of pilots with atleast some experience who are willing to accept the salary they are offering. So IMHO, it is not saving money that is the motive behind this whole idea. The million dollar question then is what is the real motive?

[Stinky]

I think the whole saving money idea is more a matter of lower turnover as opposed to lower wages.
The lower wages will be a few years down the road, but it will come.

The general public will not care unfortunately, all they want is cheap airfare and unless planes start falling out of the sky, nobody cares. If you get to Florida for a couple of hundred bucks without dying, who cares if the pilots are starving kids living in there parents basement.

The crazy thing is, you wouldn't be able to say the same about other proffessions. If kindergarten and earlier grade teachers were to be replaced with ECE students, there union and the general public would be up in arms.

Can you imagine if we tried to alleviate the doctor shortage by condensing the courses and having doctors only specialize in one very specific area. They would never allow it.

Pilots as a group somehow always find a way to screw themselves over because its all about impressing chicks with the big airplane you fly, nothing else seems to matter.

[Schlem]

When the public finds out that 20 year old kids are behind the steel door operating the aircraft I'm sure hit will shit the fan.

and what about a 20-year-old ATC? i know a couple of them. do you feel unsafe?

As long as they are not drunk or stoned watching the big screen.

[proper]

Yeah what an industry, I am only 23 but I have 3000 hours and have been busting my ass to make something out of myself, flying in the bush, dealing with weather and passengers, those short gravel/turf strips in the territories or Bc. Anyway although it was a very tough trip to get where I am (nope no jet job yet but 1900 chief) I know that the lessons and experience that I have acquired will one day save my life. The things I have seen and experienced make me not regret the path I took. It is a little frustrating when we start talking about giving the ticket to those college guys but all in all, I feel sorry for them. They will never have even the slightest idea of what "flying" is about. Sucks to be them.

[Crazymax]

A dash 8 would be exotic if it had GPS.

Doesn't it have a GPS? Our Gonzos have dual GPS in it...

Max

[Fline@9]

Proper.... you are wise beyond your years. Kudos.

[Ali G]

I can't believe some of the posts here. Jazz is hiring blah blah.....

We have worked a long time for a job at blah blah....

I have been paying my dues like a REAL pilot blah blah.....

I'm going to talk to our corporate travel department today about this blah blah....

Now they are going to hire blah blah......

Waaaaaaaaaaa........

Jazz doesn't owe anyone shit. Get over yourselves. Really, if you dont want to work at Jazz, then who cares, DONT APPLY. If you do, submit your application and Good Luck.

You are going to anyway, so flame away...

BTW, does anyone remember when nobody was hiring?