Hey Jazz...
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog
I can't believe some of the posts here. Jazz is hiring blah blah.....
We have worked a long time for a job at blah blah....
I have been paying my dues like a REAL pilot blah blah.....
I'm going to talk to our corporate travel department today about this blah blah....
Now they are going to hire blah blah......
Waaaaaaaaaaa........
Jazz doesn't owe anyone shit. Get over yourselves. Really, if you dont want to work at Jazz, then who cares, DONT APPLY. If you do, submit your application and Good Luck.
You are going to anyway, so flame away...
BTW, does anyone remember when nobody was hiring?
We have worked a long time for a job at blah blah....
I have been paying my dues like a REAL pilot blah blah.....
I'm going to talk to our corporate travel department today about this blah blah....
Now they are going to hire blah blah......
Waaaaaaaaaaa........
Jazz doesn't owe anyone shit. Get over yourselves. Really, if you dont want to work at Jazz, then who cares, DONT APPLY. If you do, submit your application and Good Luck.
You are going to anyway, so flame away...
BTW, does anyone remember when nobody was hiring?
We like doing approaches for currency and for training. That's why we don't cancel. Time isn't an issue for us. We probably have the same currency requirement as you guys (or similar) : one Take Off, Landing and Approach every 30 days (in the left seat) and one Night Take Off, Landing and approach per quarter. Even if we have the currency requirement, we like to train...Doc wrote:Crazymax....no offense intended, but is there a reason you guys never cancel in good weather, so we can get cleared?
In other words, we don't care that the weather is good, we will use the training opportunity.
Max
Crazymax: Just curious again, no offense intended, but does it really matter for currency sake if the takeoff/approach/landing are conducted under IFR or VFR? If the weather is good and you don't cancel versus the weather is good and you do cancel but continue the approach under simulated IFR...is there a difference for your currency/training requirement 
Hmm, seems to me it works both ways. Pilots taking advantage of obtaining a PPC at company A, and right after, moving to company B.
Where is the loyalty? Where is the loyalty when newhires at Jazz split to go to AC, WJ or Skyservice? Nobody owes anyone anything. Jazz does not "owe" anybody anything. I am sure these new kids, given the right training will do just fine. Also, Canada is Canada. Not Europe, not Asia, not the U.S. Canada industry has done things "our" way for quite some time (i.e. Paying your dues since the early 70's when AC last hired lowtimers).
But what would you rather...Hard times...No hiring and tons of layoffs, or Good times... a company hiring a handfull of newbies?
I certainly feel for guys who have slugged it out for years who may be behind a new grad. I personally have much more respect for the former...
Where is the loyalty? Where is the loyalty when newhires at Jazz split to go to AC, WJ or Skyservice? Nobody owes anyone anything. Jazz does not "owe" anybody anything. I am sure these new kids, given the right training will do just fine. Also, Canada is Canada. Not Europe, not Asia, not the U.S. Canada industry has done things "our" way for quite some time (i.e. Paying your dues since the early 70's when AC last hired lowtimers).
But what would you rather...Hard times...No hiring and tons of layoffs, or Good times... a company hiring a handfull of newbies?
I certainly feel for guys who have slugged it out for years who may be behind a new grad. I personally have much more respect for the former...
...Seems they are going to remove the axe and the control column from the cockpits for security reasons.
.Donald wrote:Crazymax: Just curious again, no offense intended, but does it really matter for currency sake if the takeoff/approach/landing are conducted under IFR or VFR? If the weather is good and you don't cancel versus the weather is good and you do cancel but continue the approach under simulated IFR...is there a difference for your currency/training requirement
Last edited by Crazymax on Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
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Now that is quite the professional attitude." Maybe we just don't think (or care for that matter) about commercial traffic rushing to get in on time. "
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
.Cat Driver wrote:Now that is quite the professional attitude." Maybe we just don't think (or care for that matter) about commercial traffic rushing to get in on time. "
Last edited by Crazymax on Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Its the "ME generation" Cat. ie: "I don't give a shit about anyone but me".Crazymax wrote:Put yourself into a situation where to be 10 minutes late at the ramp doesn't make a difference (or makes a very minimal one). It's kinda hard to always think about all the commercial traffic that needs to be on time. We will cancel sometimes, when we think about it to be honest. If we don't think about it, we won't feel bad...Cat Driver wrote:Now that is quite the professional attitude." Maybe we just don't think (or care for that matter) about commercial traffic rushing to get in on time. "
H/S is indeed Hold Short.
Max
Hookers are more professional than pilots these days...
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Fline@9
- Rank 2
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:37 pm
- Location: Center of the Universe (aka. YYZ)
Its sad eh Gr8gazu? Every time I hear a commercial for an expensive car that urges the listener that "they own the road" you don't have to look hard or far to see some sh*thead in a BMW or Lexus cutting someone else off, braking late, cornering hard, driving like an idiot in the snow because he's got i'drive traction, scaring pedestrians etc because some marketer said they should feel "empowered (I hate that word)" I guess it won't take long before these bozo's take that same attitude into the flight deck.
Please, no more witty sayings, smug advice, or bitter posts from low timers. Pay your dues. Be patient...
Yes.. but in the end they are not responsible.. 100% upto the PIC..MCA wrote:and what about a 20-year-old ATC? i know a couple of them. do you feel unsafe?Schlem wrote:When the public finds out that 20 year old kids are behind the steel door operating the aircraft I'm sure hit will shit the fan.
"pilot screws up.. pilot dies and is blamed.. ATC screws up.. pilot dies and pilot is blamed"
As for all this banter about paying your dues and other associated nonsense..
I did not get started in aviation for the end result. I'm here for the adventure and the journey. Have met a TON of great folk, shared many jokes, good times and stories and hope to continue doing so for the rest of my career. I will truly feel sorry for the folks that never get some of those experiences. I'll probably only get blank stares from the FO or captain that came out of "Seneca" or other program direct into a right seat as I retell some of the glory days stories. "Where the hell is ZFD?!?.. whats "the step" you're talking about?.. why couldn't you just turn on the autopilot?" etc etc is what I imagine will be heard..
Couldn't have said it better myself. It is not the destination but rather the journey that makes the trip worthwhile.proper wrote:Yeah what an industry, I am only 23 but I have 3000 hours and have been busting my ass to make something out of myself, flying in the bush, dealing with weather and passengers, those short gravel/turf strips in the territories or Bc. Anyway although it was a very tough trip to get where I am (nope no jet job yet but 1900 chief) I know that the lessons and experience that I have acquired will one day save my life. The things I have seen and experienced make me not regret the path I took. It is a little frustrating when we start talking about giving the ticket to those college guys but all in all, I feel sorry for them. They will never have even the slightest idea of what "flying" is about. Sucks to be them.
I know first hand how hard you have worked at this, man. With your attitude it is only a matter of time until you make it wherever you want. Best of all, having been there and done that, you will really appreciate it when you get there....
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Jeremy Kent
- Rank 3
- Posts: 195
- Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:38 pm
- Location: Guelph, ON
OK... for anyone who's been pounding gravel for a few years and still waiting for a call from Jazz, I get it. Frustrating. I gather this college-straight-to-Jazz phenomenom is a move to address the current or forthcoming lack of applicants, and hopefully it doesn't 'cause too many good people to skipped... and everything works out for everyone who hopes and deserves to be there. For everyone ELSE...
Folks, aviation is cyclical. We're apparently moving into a positive cycle, and it's a heck of a lot easier to find a job now than it was a few years back. Nothing new there. Now, there are a whole lot of pilots worldwide who, whether as a product of when (50s?) or where (Europe... Asia?) they were born, haven't plunked 'er onto Sachigo a billion times or tried to jam a tikinagan into a pod with frost-bitten hands. I guess they're not real pilots...? Glorified button-pushers? Uh huh, whatever keeps your ego inflated.
I took a longer route to get to where I am than I anticipated when I was younger and more naive. I met all the great people along the way, scared myself a couple of times and have some good stories to tell about it. Do I regret my path? Nope. If I could have gone 705 right out of school, would I have? Yup.
If living on the fringe of civilization and flying airplanes older than your parents is so important, then be happy you've done it/are doing it. You should be thrilled about your luck to have gone this route, and not in any way concerned about what the next generation does. Keep patting yourself on the back and don't worry so much about what everyone else is doing.
Folks, aviation is cyclical. We're apparently moving into a positive cycle, and it's a heck of a lot easier to find a job now than it was a few years back. Nothing new there. Now, there are a whole lot of pilots worldwide who, whether as a product of when (50s?) or where (Europe... Asia?) they were born, haven't plunked 'er onto Sachigo a billion times or tried to jam a tikinagan into a pod with frost-bitten hands. I guess they're not real pilots...? Glorified button-pushers? Uh huh, whatever keeps your ego inflated.
I took a longer route to get to where I am than I anticipated when I was younger and more naive. I met all the great people along the way, scared myself a couple of times and have some good stories to tell about it. Do I regret my path? Nope. If I could have gone 705 right out of school, would I have? Yup.
If living on the fringe of civilization and flying airplanes older than your parents is so important, then be happy you've done it/are doing it. You should be thrilled about your luck to have gone this route, and not in any way concerned about what the next generation does. Keep patting yourself on the back and don't worry so much about what everyone else is doing.
CrazyMax,Crazymax wrote:Put yourself into a situation where to be 10 minutes late at the ramp doesn't make a difference (or makes a very minimal one). It's kinda hard to always think about all the commercial traffic that needs to be on time. We will cancel sometimes, when we think about it to be honest. If we don't think about it, we won't feel bad...Cat Driver wrote:Now that is quite the professional attitude." Maybe we just don't think (or care for that matter) about commercial traffic rushing to get in on time. "
H/S is indeed Hold Short.
Max
While I am sure that you think you are doing the Company a favour in the way you operate, you have to realize that we are not the only company flying aroung in the skies. There are other operators that deserve the same services as you do.
Personally I will always cancel IFR if I am holding another aircraft up from their departure when I can. And I will do a VFR departure if I can't get an IFR clearance due to inbound traffic, but that is just me, so there are alot of guys that are just like me, so don't try to generalise all of us with the same brush.
Cheers Pratt
Looks like the list of no fly airlines is going to get a lot longer for some of you.
15 February 2007
New pilot program
We’ve talked quite a bit lately - and especially around the Current Market Outlook - about the amazing growth we forecast in the world’s commercial aviation fleet over the next 20 years.
But what about all the pilots we’re going to need to fly those airplanes? It’s an angle that doesn’t get a lot of attention. By our estimates there’s a need for 17,000 new pilots a year to operate the aircraft entering the market - and even more will be needed to fill the seats of retiring pilots.
For example, more than 35,000 pilots will be needed in the huge growth market of China alone over the next 20 years - just to support new airplane deliveries.
Coming soon to Alteon Training centers around the world: a 787 Dreamliner simulator.
So there’s a good deal of pressure right now to train more pilots. You may have read in the news last month that Alteon Training, a Boeing subsidiary and the world’s largest airline training company, has just opened a new training center in Singapore. We think this new center will greatly expand our ability to meet the demand for aviation training in the region.
At this new facility, and the other 22 centers in the world, Alteon’s staff of more than 400 instructors is going to be very busy training new pilots on Boeing models, and on Airbus and Fokker airplanes. The facility can train more than 6,000 pilot crews a year - as well as maintenance and cabin crews.
Another key piece of the story is the new pilot program (no pun intended) to provide jet-ready, airline qualified pilots to the airlines. In Australia we’re beginning tests on the Multi-Crew Pilot License (MPL) program which is aimed at developing airline-qualified pilots more efficiently and effectively.
The Alteon MPL program focuses on developing the skills, knowledge, and competencies a crew member will need in order to perform their role at the airline. Cadets will learn in a multi-crew environment right from the start, integrating theory and practice in both aircraft and simulators. This helps prepare them for a First Officer position in about 15 months instead of the current two to three year process.
Now keep in mind, reduced training time doesn’t mean the program will be any less comprehensive or rigorous. The mandate of the program and the beta test is that training will achieve the same or better results than traditional training methods.
The time savings are actually the result of improvements in training techniques. The MPL program maximizes simulator training and minimizes the amount of “negative training” - the learning and unlearning found in some traditional training methods. And of course, safety is of utmost importance.
Airlines, regulators and flight schools are invited to participate throughout the program. Sharing lessons learned is an important part of developing and delivering this beta training to the industry.
What I like about the Alteon story overall is that it’s a good example of listening to customers. When airlines said they needed more training facilities closer to where they operate, Alteon took note - and now operates more than 80 simulators in 13 countries.
This kind of working together saves our customers time and money. And that’s always a good thing.
15 February 2007
New pilot program
We’ve talked quite a bit lately - and especially around the Current Market Outlook - about the amazing growth we forecast in the world’s commercial aviation fleet over the next 20 years.
But what about all the pilots we’re going to need to fly those airplanes? It’s an angle that doesn’t get a lot of attention. By our estimates there’s a need for 17,000 new pilots a year to operate the aircraft entering the market - and even more will be needed to fill the seats of retiring pilots.
For example, more than 35,000 pilots will be needed in the huge growth market of China alone over the next 20 years - just to support new airplane deliveries.
Coming soon to Alteon Training centers around the world: a 787 Dreamliner simulator.
So there’s a good deal of pressure right now to train more pilots. You may have read in the news last month that Alteon Training, a Boeing subsidiary and the world’s largest airline training company, has just opened a new training center in Singapore. We think this new center will greatly expand our ability to meet the demand for aviation training in the region.
At this new facility, and the other 22 centers in the world, Alteon’s staff of more than 400 instructors is going to be very busy training new pilots on Boeing models, and on Airbus and Fokker airplanes. The facility can train more than 6,000 pilot crews a year - as well as maintenance and cabin crews.
Another key piece of the story is the new pilot program (no pun intended) to provide jet-ready, airline qualified pilots to the airlines. In Australia we’re beginning tests on the Multi-Crew Pilot License (MPL) program which is aimed at developing airline-qualified pilots more efficiently and effectively.
The Alteon MPL program focuses on developing the skills, knowledge, and competencies a crew member will need in order to perform their role at the airline. Cadets will learn in a multi-crew environment right from the start, integrating theory and practice in both aircraft and simulators. This helps prepare them for a First Officer position in about 15 months instead of the current two to three year process.
Now keep in mind, reduced training time doesn’t mean the program will be any less comprehensive or rigorous. The mandate of the program and the beta test is that training will achieve the same or better results than traditional training methods.
The time savings are actually the result of improvements in training techniques. The MPL program maximizes simulator training and minimizes the amount of “negative training” - the learning and unlearning found in some traditional training methods. And of course, safety is of utmost importance.
Airlines, regulators and flight schools are invited to participate throughout the program. Sharing lessons learned is an important part of developing and delivering this beta training to the industry.
What I like about the Alteon story overall is that it’s a good example of listening to customers. When airlines said they needed more training facilities closer to where they operate, Alteon took note - and now operates more than 80 simulators in 13 countries.
This kind of working together saves our customers time and money. And that’s always a good thing.
Pika, what I cannot understand it the apparent joy you get from hard working pilots not getting their shot because the airlines are trying to save a buck.
If there was actually a pilot shortage in this country, then fine. But there isn't. And your gloating really is petty imho.
If there was actually a pilot shortage in this country, then fine. But there isn't. And your gloating really is petty imho.
When a free man dies, he loses the pleasure of life. A slave loses his pain. Death is the only freedom a slave knows. That's why he's not afraid of it. That's why we'll win.
