rfc pilot.... since you are not an ame, what is your concern about our wages? Would this perhaps have something to do with you post about the AME charging you, I think it was somewhere around 165 dollars to change 2 vacuum filters and a fuse bracket?
Fishing perhaps?
Hourly AME wage
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore
Not at all. But since it seems you all took offence to it... Whatever. Take it as you wish.
Im just shocked the poll was for 20 to 30 dollars only. Frankly I find an AME charging 20 bucks is seriously undercharing. And yes, do tell me where I can find him
(this is a joke) As money saved on an AME (including many other things, such as tie-downs, insurance, taxes, etc) is money in the tanks. Why you guys get offended so easily... I dont know.
Still, a poll says between 20 and 30, and twotter says anything under 70 is being an idiot. *shrugs*. Guess that makes most AMEs idiots according to him? Or am I miss reading this thread. Either way, not that it matters to me. Im not going to fly somewhere just to get a cheaper price. In my eyes, you get what you pay for, and a 20 dollar/hour AME might just not take care of my airplane while he's working on it.
But yes you were correct, about 165 bucks for all that, and my main question was not, can I screw the AME up the arse and not pay him, but rather, can I do this maintenance myself.
Im sure most of the AMEs here, as mechanics, would rather do as much as possible on their car without sending it to the shop right? Well, same with me. I'd rather do as much as possible on my plane, in the interests of saving money, learning more about my airplane, and TLC (something I've noticed a lot of mechanics - Not just AMEs - lack in general).
/2 cents
Im just shocked the poll was for 20 to 30 dollars only. Frankly I find an AME charging 20 bucks is seriously undercharing. And yes, do tell me where I can find him
(this is a joke) As money saved on an AME (including many other things, such as tie-downs, insurance, taxes, etc) is money in the tanks. Why you guys get offended so easily... I dont know.Still, a poll says between 20 and 30, and twotter says anything under 70 is being an idiot. *shrugs*. Guess that makes most AMEs idiots according to him? Or am I miss reading this thread. Either way, not that it matters to me. Im not going to fly somewhere just to get a cheaper price. In my eyes, you get what you pay for, and a 20 dollar/hour AME might just not take care of my airplane while he's working on it.
But yes you were correct, about 165 bucks for all that, and my main question was not, can I screw the AME up the arse and not pay him, but rather, can I do this maintenance myself.
Im sure most of the AMEs here, as mechanics, would rather do as much as possible on their car without sending it to the shop right? Well, same with me. I'd rather do as much as possible on my plane, in the interests of saving money, learning more about my airplane, and TLC (something I've noticed a lot of mechanics - Not just AMEs - lack in general).
/2 cents
I am one of those "20 dollar an hour" AME's, and I can assure you that I take the best possible "care" of the many aircraft I work on. Just because I get payed at the lower end of the pay scale does NOT mean that I will do any less of a job than if I was being payed 30. I would suggest to you that if you find your mechanics lacking in TLC... find new ones.... Not everyone is a big fisted thug.
-
skydrolboy
- Rank 2
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 1:03 am
- Location: CYLW
They poll is for what AME's are getting paid not what AME's are charging. Most AME's work for an AMO which doesnt pay the mech near what the company charges a customer to do the work required.rfcPilot wrote: Im just shocked the poll was for 20 to 30 dollars only. Frankly I find an AME charging 20 bucks is seriously undercharing.
-
ottawa,kan
- Rank 6
- Posts: 427
- Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:14 pm
- Location: Kansas
payroll vrs payment
I'm constantly amazed at people who can't figure the difference between what an owner pays the help, and what an owner charges the client. If I send a high school kid to somebodies backyard with a shovel to plant a tree, I want $35 an hour for him. He makes $7.50. But I would much rather charge somebody $50 to plant a tree ( we're talking big trees here) and not have to discuss the hourly rate. Anyway, you may assume I'm making a killing, but I can come up with a list at least a page long of all the overhead I have to pay, that makes it so I'm not. Think about calling your mechanic. Does someone answer the phone?? Who pays that person? Who pays for the estimate if you turn it down?. Who pays for the heat, the electric, the tools, the insurance, the lawyers for the insurance? Who pays for the phone, the website, the email, the time spent emailing. The lunch break. The sick leave. The vacation days? All the time talking about what will be done, or not done. That's actually a good one in our industry. If I send a skid loader to your house, I charge while you talk to my guy. I charge while you and your wife argue. I charge while my guy loads and unloads. Etc etc etc. One of the reasons auto mechanics can do so well, is they mostly don't get paid by the hour. There's a book time listed for most procedures, and a good mechanic can always beat the book. And he has a service manager running interference so he doen't get bothered by the customer. Of course I realize that airplane work is different. Anyway, it's all expensive and no one is making enough money. We all should be lawyers, or Wall Street types. If we could live with ourselves.
-
ottawa,kan
- Rank 6
- Posts: 427
- Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:14 pm
- Location: Kansas
payroll vrs payment
I'm constantly amazed at people who can't figure the difference between what an owner pays the help, and what an owner charges the client. If I send a high school kid to somebodies backyard with a shovel to plant a tree, I want $35 an hour for him. He makes $7.50. But I would much rather charge somebody $50 to plant a tree ( we're talking big trees here) and not have to discuss the hourly rate. Anyway, you may assume I'm making a killing, but I can come up with a list at least a page long of all the overhead I have to pay, that makes it so I'm not. Think about calling your mechanic. Does someone answer the phone?? Who pays that person? Who pays for the estimate if you turn it down?. Who pays for the heat, the electric, the tools, the insurance, the lawyers for the insurance? Who pays for the phone, the website, the email, the time spent emailing. The lunch break. The sick leave. The vacation days? All the time talking about what will be done, or not done. That's actually a good one in our industry. If I send a skid loader to your house, I charge while you talk to my guy. I charge while you and your wife argue. I charge while my guy loads and unloads. Etc etc etc. One of the reasons auto mechanics can do so well, is they mostly don't get paid by the hour. There's a book time listed for most procedures, and a good mechanic can always beat the book. And he has a service manager running interference so he doen't get bothered by the customer. Of course I realize that airplane work is different. Anyway, it's all expensive and no one is making enough money. We all should be lawyers, or Wall Street types. If we could live with ourselves.
i'm sorry i may have helped to lower the totals on your poll as i am an apprentice i am at the bottom of the scale. though it might be interesting to see how many of the people that have answered the poll on the lowest end are apprentices or making a low wage.
just a thought.
just a thought.
stinson, while you do bring good points, the way I see it is as such, talking about a smaller-type AME, and not someone working for the Walmart of mechanics or something similar.
Say I were to pay an AME 50 bucks an hour, because that is what he charges. Then in my mind, he makes 50 bucks an hour. But.. He has to pay utilities (heat, water, electricity), he has to pay perhaps rent, or anything else. Such as maybe an apprentice worker, or someone to answer that phone. Whatever the case may be, the AME has to pay for all that. So he still makes 50 bucks an hour, but he has to spend money to make money. So if he has to spend 30 dollars an hour on all those things, and is only left with 20 dollars, I certainly dont see it as a 20 dollar per hour job. Does he really need to have that secretary or could he put a little more effort and answer the phone himself? Or communicate via email. Does he really need 30 ceiling lights in his hangar or could he do with only 15? And so on
A lot of it is debatable, and of course, Im only referencing an AME that works for himself, and doesnt have to pay a royalty to the company he works for.
On the other hand, if that AME *does* work for an AMO or whatever, and charges 50 bucks an hour but the AMO demands 10 bucks an hour, then I'd agree the AME's salary to be 40 dollars an hour. Now if on top of that he has to do (or wants to do) some additional spendings, those are non of my concerns.
Say I were to pay an AME 50 bucks an hour, because that is what he charges. Then in my mind, he makes 50 bucks an hour. But.. He has to pay utilities (heat, water, electricity), he has to pay perhaps rent, or anything else. Such as maybe an apprentice worker, or someone to answer that phone. Whatever the case may be, the AME has to pay for all that. So he still makes 50 bucks an hour, but he has to spend money to make money. So if he has to spend 30 dollars an hour on all those things, and is only left with 20 dollars, I certainly dont see it as a 20 dollar per hour job. Does he really need to have that secretary or could he put a little more effort and answer the phone himself? Or communicate via email. Does he really need 30 ceiling lights in his hangar or could he do with only 15? And so on
A lot of it is debatable, and of course, Im only referencing an AME that works for himself, and doesnt have to pay a royalty to the company he works for.
On the other hand, if that AME *does* work for an AMO or whatever, and charges 50 bucks an hour but the AMO demands 10 bucks an hour, then I'd agree the AME's salary to be 40 dollars an hour. Now if on top of that he has to do (or wants to do) some additional spendings, those are non of my concerns.
-
tiny
- Rank 4
- Posts: 256
- Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:54 am
- Location: somewhere on a river looking for dropped tools
24/hr I've had M1 for almost three years now. The industry definately seems to be short on AMEs. Last time I went looking work, I emailed two resumes and within 24 hours I had two decent job offers, without out even an interview. Also, withing the last year I have recieved 4 unsolicited job offers. Sure is better than a few years ago. Though I did have a previous boss tell me not to complain about wages as an apprentice cause I made way more than he did when he started (30 years previous) 
The troll is at work here, do not answer it... It would be nice if one of the Mod's would ban this fool.. It's only here to stir up shit and we've proven it in other threads..rfcPilot wrote:stinson, while you do bring good points, the way I see it is as such, talking about a smaller-type AME, and not someone working for the Walmart of mechanics or something similar.
Say I were to pay an AME 50 bucks an hour, because that is what he charges. Then in my mind, he makes 50 bucks an hour. But.. He has to pay utilities (heat, water, electricity), he has to pay perhaps rent, or anything else. Such as maybe an apprentice worker, or someone to answer that phone. Whatever the case may be, the AME has to pay for all that. So he still makes 50 bucks an hour, but he has to spend money to make money. So if he has to spend 30 dollars an hour on all those things, and is only left with 20 dollars, I certainly dont see it as a 20 dollar per hour job. Does he really need to have that secretary or could he put a little more effort and answer the phone himself? Or communicate via email. Does he really need 30 ceiling lights in his hangar or could he do with only 15? And so on
A lot of it is debatable, and of course, Im only referencing an AME that works for himself, and doesnt have to pay a royalty to the company he works for.
On the other hand, if that AME *does* work for an AMO or whatever, and charges 50 bucks an hour but the AMO demands 10 bucks an hour, then I'd agree the AME's salary to be 40 dollars an hour. Now if on top of that he has to do (or wants to do) some additional spendings, those are non of my concerns.
A fair hourly rate is based on quite a few factors but the two main factors are the cost of overhead and the market value of the work.
Put it simply, how much your work is "worth" and how much you have to spend to make it.
Market value is based mainly on supply and demand. If demand for your services are higher than the supply then you can charge more.
Many like rfcPilot perhaps may view this simplistic approach as unfair. The reality is that EVERYONE, including AMEs must deal with prices based on market value all the time.
Do you really think Walmart marks up their merchandise just 5%? Normal retail mark-up approaches 100%. Or how about the oil companies? Alberta isn't selling crude at some arbitrary "fair" price that will guarantee a reasonable return to their shareholders. They are selling at market price and taking advantage of the huge resultant profits.
AMEs are long overdue for an adjustment to wages. Unfortunately the progress has been delayed by various issues including fluctuations in industry jobs and the constant barrage of fly-by-night operations that offer to work for well below reasonable rates.
It's hard to believe there are places that have shop rates that are lower than car garages or photo-copier repair.
rfcPilot, what do you consider a fair wage and shop rate for a car mechanic? How about if the car mechanic was the only one in a remote town?
How about a plumber? Electrician? Pipe fitter? Carpenter?
Put it simply, how much your work is "worth" and how much you have to spend to make it.
Market value is based mainly on supply and demand. If demand for your services are higher than the supply then you can charge more.
Many like rfcPilot perhaps may view this simplistic approach as unfair. The reality is that EVERYONE, including AMEs must deal with prices based on market value all the time.
Do you really think Walmart marks up their merchandise just 5%? Normal retail mark-up approaches 100%. Or how about the oil companies? Alberta isn't selling crude at some arbitrary "fair" price that will guarantee a reasonable return to their shareholders. They are selling at market price and taking advantage of the huge resultant profits.
AMEs are long overdue for an adjustment to wages. Unfortunately the progress has been delayed by various issues including fluctuations in industry jobs and the constant barrage of fly-by-night operations that offer to work for well below reasonable rates.
It's hard to believe there are places that have shop rates that are lower than car garages or photo-copier repair.
rfcPilot, what do you consider a fair wage and shop rate for a car mechanic? How about if the car mechanic was the only one in a remote town?
How about a plumber? Electrician? Pipe fitter? Carpenter?
Re: Hourly AME wage
i just got my licence and Im at 23,50$ per hour with an extra 1$ for working night, in montreal
-
openendwrench
- Rank 1
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:38 pm
Re: Hourly AME wage
M1, M2 for about 20 years. 90K base salary plus bonus and benefits.
Re: Hourly AME wage
Let me guess, Suncor?!openendwrench wrote:M1, M2 for about 20 years. 90K base salary plus bonus and benefits.
Re: Hourly AME wage
There is a big difference in a wage paid by an employer and a freelance or contract work. There is no EI, Insurance, benefits, CPP etc. If you think that is a high fee to work on an airplane, what does your local auto dealer charge? $90/hr?....$100/hr?
My neighbour just paid 100/hr for a guy to fix his bloody furnace!
Back to the point. M1, licensed 4 years all spent in GA. Making $29/hr............demanding $2 more in the new year!
P:S: Anyone making under $25/hr. WHY???? These are good times in the industry, and we all know this wont last forever. Demand more or get the !@#$ out. There are jobs galore out there!
My neighbour just paid 100/hr for a guy to fix his bloody furnace!
Back to the point. M1, licensed 4 years all spent in GA. Making $29/hr............demanding $2 more in the new year!
P:S: Anyone making under $25/hr. WHY???? These are good times in the industry, and we all know this wont last forever. Demand more or get the !@#$ out. There are jobs galore out there!
Re: Hourly AME wage
I think what we all need to figure out is how can we increase our market value? We have licenses which are necessary to conduct business, nothing gets returned to service without "the stamp" But how can we make this work in our favour?
Re: Hourly AME wage
openendwrench wrote:M1, M2 for about 20 years. 90K base salary plus bonus and benefits.
Your company hiring? "I know a really good guy!"
-
openendwrench
- Rank 1
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:38 pm
Re: Hourly AME wage
No Riverman, I don't work for Suncor.
For 15 years I worked for crap wages, night shifts, weekends all with one goal in mind.
I'm almost there!!!
For 15 years I worked for crap wages, night shifts, weekends all with one goal in mind.
I'm almost there!!!
Re: Hourly AME wage
Let's see how our brethren are getting their foot in the door at Frontier Airlines/Lynx Aviation:
http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/ ... DV%3dFalse
Well 13.50 gets you in to work on what? Dash 8 400's........
How about Horizon Air?
Here's the link:
https://horizon73.recruitmax.com//main/ ... Highlight=
Wow 15.20 gets you in to work on what? If you are lucky Dash 8 400's......
I imagine A&P's with a licence and a few years experience must be getting higher than that.
http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/ ... DV%3dFalse
Well 13.50 gets you in to work on what? Dash 8 400's........
How about Horizon Air?
Here's the link:
https://horizon73.recruitmax.com//main/ ... Highlight=
Wow 15.20 gets you in to work on what? If you are lucky Dash 8 400's......
I imagine A&P's with a licence and a few years experience must be getting higher than that.
Re: Hourly AME wage
I think an a&p is as good as an apprentice out of college. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but in the U.S. until you have IA your license in incomplete. That is a pathetic wage for a skilled person.
-
hella_bright
- Rank 1
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:55 pm
Re: Hourly AME wage
Wow, I hope that is a typo! WTF??dashx wrote:Let's see how our brethren are getting their foot in the door at Frontier Airlines/Lynx Aviation:
http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/ ... DV%3dFalse
Well 13.50 gets you in to work on what? Dash 8 400's........
How about Horizon Air?
Here's the link:
https://horizon73.recruitmax.com//main/ ... Highlight=
Wow 15.20 gets you in to work on what? If you are lucky Dash 8 400's......
I imagine A&P's with a licence and a few years experience must be getting higher than that.
