Myths about firearms

[Cat Driver]

And for all you gun control types, if someone decides to kill you they can do it in a hundred ways.

[Wasps rule]

less guns in the hands of idiots, morons and crazies = good

if don't agree with these equations then you are likely one of the idiots, morons or crazies.

I disagree. Looks to me like you called anyone who doesn't share your point of view either an idiot, a moron, or a crazy. In addition, the Swiss example doesn't support your argument, since it obviously puts more guns in the hands of private citizens.

Perhaps I put words in your mouth with my disarming rant but I will give you a chance to clarify. Would 10 less guns in Canada help you sleep better at night? Can you help me put a value on your "less guns" comment?

[mellow_pilot]

I would be happy with 10 000 less illegal guns in Canada, every year, til there are no more illegal guns.

[NWONT]

A couple of years ago there were very few illegal firearms in Canada. Now, thanks to the liberals they will soon all be illegal. What does that prove?

[niss]

Well it depends on how responsible the gun owners are. I am sure that there are many who would do the responsible thing bitch and whine and still adhere to the new regulations. And there would be people like you who would bitch and whine, and still keep their firearms even if they are illegal.

If this is the attitude you hold NWOT and you intend to keep your firearms not in accordance with new regulations because you dont feel that you should be pushed around by people who who are at the most 1072 miles to the south east of you, you are irresponsible and a criminal.

While I would hope you would adhere to any regulation set forth by the government, your attitude lends me to believe that you would ignore it. That would make you an irresponsible gun owner, the exact type that give guns a bad name.

Many of us disagree with the laws we follow every day. But we follow them.

[Rockie]

less guns in the hands of idiots, morons and crazies = good

if don't agree with these equations then you are likely one of the idiots, morons or crazies.

I disagree. Looks to me like you called anyone who doesn't share your point of view either an idiot, a moron, or a crazy. In addition, the Swiss example doesn't support your argument, since it obviously puts more guns in the hands of private citizens.

Perhaps I put words in your mouth with my disarming rant but I will give you a chance to clarify. Would 10 less guns in Canada help you sleep better at night? Can you help me put a value on your "less guns" comment?

Read what I said again except take your time and do it carefully.

As regards the Swiss. Everyone who has one of the weapons you refer to is ex-military, or at least has military training, and they form a militia for the defense of Switzerland. That country if you recall is neutral. And they have had to vigorously defend that neutrality in the recent past while all out war raged all around them. Each weapon has been duly issued for one purpose only and it is strictly controlled. I have seen people riding down the street with their rifle slung on their back on the way to the range for practice. A weird sight for a Canadian to see. Who has what weapon is strictly controlled and fully constitutes a registry in the context of what we're talking about here. But you seem to think the Swiss army drives around town pushing rifles off the back of a truck. Try and get caught in Switzerland with an un-registered and illegal firearm and see how heavy the law can be.

Now, once more for people who still misunderstand me, here is my position on all this:

I do not advocate disarming anyone. Unless the individual is a risk to society by having a weapon then I most certainly do. Disagree with that point and, yes, you are an idiot.

I don't care how many firearms are out there as long as they are strictly controlled and registered. By that I don't mean taken away. Just who has what.

I think the money spent on this registry so far is criminal and people belong in jail, because over a billion dollars doesn't disappear. It is in someone's bank account and I regard it as stolen from us, the taxpayer. That does not mean that the gun registry is a bad idea.

Unless you are a threat, I don't care if you have a gun. I don't care if everyone has a gun as long as they aren't a threat. But people don't typically walk around carrying a sign that says "I'm a nutjob", so the only tool we have to keep the "nutjob" from getting guns is through gun control. A registry is a part of that equation. And if you are too immature to just register the damn things without getting all defensive about it then I wonder if you should have one as well.

Grow up. Be an adult. No one is going to take your guns away from you. Just register them for Pete's sake.

[Wasps rule]

Rockie, in your previous posts you have referred to firearm owners as nut cases, idiots, whiners, morons, immature, babies and my personal favourite – crazies. If this is how you feel about licenced gun owners – one of the most law-abiding segments of society - I would hate to hear what you think of any other group of like-minded individuals.
Now please keep an open mind and allow me to explain why firearms owners don’t think highly of registering. Under the old Firearms Acquisition Certificate(FAC) you were licenced to buy guns. No need to register your grouse gun or deer rifle. The screening for the "nutjobs" happens at this licencing stage of the game. I doubt You will find anybody on this site that isn't for this step of the process, myself included. One of the big arguments of the “anti’s” is the current database is used to see if there are guns at a certain residence. Well it stands to reason if a guy has a licence, there is a darn good chance there is a gun in there. And if he isn’t licenced and he is about to have his house swarmed by LEO’s then it stands to reason, there is a pretty good chance there is a gun in the house. So why painstakingly list every single firearm in the country to the tune of $1 000 000 000 CAD knowing the house already resides a licenced owner if the intent is not for confiscation? There is no arguing the confiscation point, the Lieberals have already showed their hand on this count. Remember Martin standing in Toronto promising to “ban handguns”. Right now I believe Charest has banning semi-auto rifles as part of his election platform in PQ and the federal Lieberals have a resolution on their books promising to ban semi-autos if they get back in power. So when you tell me to "grow up. Be an adult" and "No one is going to take my guns away" you come across as woefully uninformed at best. At the end of the day, when all the law abiding folks(that's me by the way, all mine are registered) have lost their firearms I’m guessing that criminals are still gonna have theirs. The end result will likely be an increase in crime rates, since criminals have just been guaranteed a safe workplace. One just has to look to England to see what has happened to crime rates since they had strict firearms laws enacted. I hope I’ve shed a little light on the plight of firearms owners in Canada. So when someone who is well intended but mis-informed tells me registration is harmless and I should quit whining I take exception. Christ Almighty Carla Homolka has more rights under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms than firearm owners. That doesn’t sit right with me. Tell me how does that sit with you?

[NWONT]

Rockie, its been explained to you ten times already that the Liberals fully admit they intended to outlaw firearms one catagory at a time. Somehow you seem unable to grasp this concept. Niss you pathetic, spineless wimp. There are many laws that are illconcieved and should be abolished. This is one of them. These laws get changed by people with backbones standing up for themselves. In the 1940's Jews where outlawed in Germany by a corrupt government, blacks had to ride in the back of the bus, couldn't drink from a whitepersons fountain, or attend white schools in the south. In many Moslem countries, women can't leave their homes without a male relative. There are many laws in many countries that are wrong and need to be changed. Now go outside and play with your toys or I'll put you across my knee and spank you like you were my woman.

[niss]

sorry your going to have to slow it down a bit for me from southern ontario. For a second it sounded like you were comparing gun registration to policies of segrigation, genocide, and sharia law......i know its a laughable thought.

Let me ask you this, how come i have to register my aircraft and have my name and address put up on a government website for the world to see? I havent bitched about that at all, and that IMHO is an invasion of privacy. But you go on and on about how us southern retards are forcing you to register your rifle which you claim to need for your day to day life up north. Let me ask you this....if you require your rifle in your day to day life how the @#$! am I talking to you here? Arent you out in the deepest part of the backcountry with no power, running water, or telecommunications? Arent you forced to hunt for your food lest you starve?

No it would seem to me that you enjoy your gun, it is a hobby. You do not require it to live anymore than any gun owner down south does.

I think you still cant shake this LOOK AT ME I AM UP NORTH attitude and prefer to think that just because you are in a subarctic environment that makes you more enlightened then us.

Grow up grizzly adams. oh ya and whats with this putting me over on your knee shit......the wife not putting out?

[mellow_pilot]

When kicked by and ass, consider the source.

[ocnek]

Grow up. Be an adult. No one is going to take your guns away from you. Just register them for Pete's sake.

Rockie,

During the last federal election Mr. Paul Martin was campaigning on "Banning" hand guns if elected. If they were elected where do you thing they would get the info of where/who had these guns to collect?

The majority of guns used in gun crime are illegally imported UNREGISTERED guns from the US and overseas. Even if the gun was registered and used in a crime, what does that help? Sure it shows who legally owned the gun last but the police would already have a record that the gun was stolen right? A law abiding gun owner would report his property stolen / lost don't ya thing? Or are all gun owners evil people just waiting to break the law any change they get?

The registry becomes a useless tool once the firearm leaves the possession of the legal registered owner i.e. Stolen.


After the Dawson shooting, there was widespread reaction to the "Banning" of Semi Automatic firearms. If any government were to implement the banning where do you think they would get the info from of who had what?

Say down the road, a crazy goes on the rampage and shoots a dozen people with a shotgun. People over react and demand the banning of shotguns...Again where would the government get the info....

Same thing with long guns...

The registry, as noble an idea it is just does not work for what it's was advertised to do. Which was lower/prevent gun crime. It doesn't take a lot of common sense to figure out it doesn't prevent/lower anything.

Registering guns in Canada isn't a new idea that we gun owners a dead against. Gun owners have had to register their Handguns since the early 1930's!!.

It's not the registry that has most legal gun owners upset as you may think, and I believe is the biggest misconception of this whole debate but it's what the knee-jerk reaction Bill C-68 did to us law abiding gun owners.

The instant the Mr. Jean put pen to paper and the bill became law, we gun owners became instant Federal criminals as stated under the firearms act. Sure they gave us time to register and take a course but this process took time and / is very mismanaged to the tune of 2-billion. I know guys that still don't have registration certs. for there guns almost a year after they filled out all the forms. So by definition of the law they are criminals. Semantics I guess, which lawyers for both sides could have a field day with as they do, but I hope you see my point.

The thing that irks me the most is that I have to ask my mighty all knowing government permission to own a piece of personal property that we do have a right to own. http://www.rkba.ca/

I'm an adult, and I have passed my PAL and registered all my firearms.......oh yea, so did Kimveer Gill.

J.

[TITAN]

niss wrote!!

Let me ask you this, how come i have to register my aircraft and have my name and address put up on a government website for the world to see?

cause there is no future plans of aircraft being band!!!
as for firearms it has been brought up , and having every single firearm registered just gives them the name address and gun serial n , so that if ever goes threw they can just go to your door and say put your gun/guns inn the basket please!!

[xsbank]

If you read the statistics, which most of you obviously don't, you will see the death rate from shootings (or all murder, for that matter) doesn't even make it into the top 20 causes of death in Canada.

If you can find the murder statistics, you will see that less than half of murder victims are shot.

Then if you delve further into it, half of those victims (about 100) have criminal records or are shot by those with criminal records.

I think that's a fine example of Darwinism at work. Its tempting to suggest that there should be MORE illegal guns!

Occasionally, someone innocent gets shot and that's a tragedy. However, for every innocent person who gets shot, thousands (thousands!) die from heart disease and cancer. 8000 a year are killed in accidents.

The true tragedy here is a waste of $2,000,000,000 that came out of my paycheque that could have been spent on something useful.

'Gun control' is a total waste of time, money and effort which was set up entirely by the Liberals as a knee-jerk reaction to a bus-load of dead women in Montreal.

It is there solely to distract us from the $2 billion that will be spent on the Olympics in Vancouver or the horsesh*t that's taking place in Afghanistan (bring our guys home!).

[niss]

niss wrote!!

Let me ask you this, how come i have to register my aircraft and have my name and address put up on a government website for the world to see?

cause there is no future plans of aircraft being band!!!
as for firearms it has been brought up , and having every single firearm registered just gives them the name address and gun serial n , so that if ever goes threw they can just go to your door and say put your gun/guns inn the basket please!!

Handguns have been required to be registered for the past 70 something years, and they still havent been banned........did they just not get around to it?

My name and address is set up for the whole world to see......can I just stroll by a website and see where you live and what your packing? If not then its not that big a deal.

[NWONT]

Again I must repeat myself for Niss etal. The banning of handguns IS on the agenda for the Liberals, so with semi-autos. I also own an aircraft and if I thought for one second the government would try with aircraft what they are doing with firearms I would lead the fight. At this point we can still get in our floatplanes a fly out for a days fishing without telling the government where we are going. I can well imagine the day that this will end. Now before you all hit your keyboards, I always let someone know where I'm going and when I'll be back, just not the government. Niss if you object to your name being published, get off you ass and do something about it, as we are with this bullshit registry, and yes I do compare the registry with every ill conceived , discriminatory, poorly thought out, horrendously expensive, worthless, no-objective except to control the citizenship, ever written in any country law. This should never have been put on the books and since it is it should be removed. When it is removed maybe they will think twice before they try something like this again. Thats what happens when men stand up and make their government accountable. I also think that every penny of assets owned by Jean Chritien, Paul Martin and Allan Rock should be siezed and auctioned off to pay for this mess.

[niss]

So tell me, if the government does (and wrongfully I admit) ban handguns and/or semi-auto long guns, do you plan on illegally owning them or do you plan on staying the responsible gun owner you claim to be?

[trey kule]

Niss wrote Handguns have been required to be registered for the past 70 something years, and they still havent been banned........did they just not get around to it?
Let me give you some history first. Until 1979 (I believe), you could actually register a sub machine gun. It was registered as a prohibited weapon. When they first came out with the FACs suddenly all prohibited weapns had to be turned in for destroying. Only a few complaints, but hey, they were absolutely clearly weapons.
So what happened lately. I "reregistered" two of my handguns and yea and behold, they came back as prohibited. Seems the government used a metric number for barrel length and any side arm with a bbl less than 6" is now prohibited. Oh, they let me keep them. Even gave me a special Possession card. But told me I could not sell, give them away, and when I died they had to be turned in. How much longer do you think it will be before they make another change and call for these. And BTW I have owned both of these handguns for nearly thirty years.

The point of this is that you sometimes have to look down the road a bit to ask where this is all going. No question in my mind the government intends to disarm the law abiding population, and as long as they do it a little bit at a time some people can not see what is happening.

A wise man once said that seldom is any nation subject to a wholesale change. We give up our rights and liberties a little bit at a time.
And this is one time that the whole thing should be scrapped.
To compromise is to let them wait for another day to continue the erosion.

As an aside to the comment made about someone from Switzerland riding around with a gun. When I was a young pup, after school a couple of us would get our old single shot 16gas out and hitchhike out to shoot puddle ducks. Hunted until dark and then hitchhiked home. Usually gave the folks that gave us a ride a couple of the ducks. Simpler times.
But then we didnt have 24 hour a day TV showing us to hold a gun funny and whack anyone who pisses us off. And we didnt have the drugs.

[NWONT]

I don't own any handguns, I have no use for them. They are for target shooting or people shooting and I do neither. I also have no problem with people who own them. I registered my hunting rifles against my will because we have a police officer in the family and I didn't want to jeopardize this persons standing in the force. I haven't taken the training, but wrote the tests and passed without difficulty, my father taught me much more than is required by law, and I have done the same with my sons. As has been said, if law enforcement for whatever reason found it necessary to enter my house they know I have a firearms licence, so they can rightfully assume that I have firearms. When this battle is over I will demand my registration records be destroyed.

[ocnek]

Handguns have been required to be registered for the past 70 something years, and they still havent been banned........did they just not get around to it?

My name and address is set up for the whole world to see......can I just stroll by a website and see where you live and what your packing? If not then its not that big a deal.

Well if the Liberals got in the last election they would of got around to it by now. It's just a matter of time before they are banned. "Banning" things seems to be the flavor of the month for the world...Ban this Ban that. Doen't matter if it solves anything just ban it. Pretty soon they'll ban your gas guzzle'N Piper (wish I owned one too ) for no reason just to "SAVE" the planet.

Yes you have to publish your info (it's also in the phone book too...if you choose to put it there), but how many crazy pilots armed with the information that you own a Piper are going to break into your house to steal the keys for it?......uh wait a sec. From all the post I've read on this site that may be a bad example

Having a nice "shopping List" ie the registry, for criminals to use to find guns is not smart or safe. And has been already used as such. Hell, just a couple weeks ago an Ottawa paper release parts of the registry on the internet which included types of firearms and postal codes of where they are. This information is supposed to be private and secure and not to be revealed to anyone but the authorities. What do you say to a family, when a crack head uses that info to break into their house because he thinks a gun is inside..."Opps sorry about that family. Good thing ya didn't get killed. You should of registered that firearm...oh wait a sec."

The only good that can come from a registry of firearms is to be able to return a stolen firearm to the rightful owner.

That said, no men in black have knocked on my door demanding my guns from me. All my guns are registered and properly stored and I personally didn't run into any snags others were having with the registration system.

I just get annoyed when people spout off on how the registry prevents deaths, lowers crime and solves domestic violence. It doesn't.


On a side note: Would . Norris have to register his "Fire Arms?" if he moved to Canada? hmmmmmmmmm.

[niss]

. norris has no need for firearms.....but he does have to register both his legs.

[Rockie]

Rockie, in your previous posts you have referred to firearm owners as nut cases, idiots, whiners, morons, immature, babies and my personal favourite – crazies. If this is how you feel about licenced gun owners – one of the most law-abiding segments of society - I would hate to hear what you think of any other group of like-minded individuals.
Now please keep an open mind and allow me to explain why firearms owners don’t think highly of registering. Under the old Firearms Acquisition Certificate(FAC) you were licenced to buy guns. No need to register your grouse gun or deer rifle. The screening for the "nutjobs" happens at this licencing stage of the game. I doubt You will find anybody on this site that isn't for this step of the process, myself included. One of the big arguments of the “anti’s” is the current database is used to see if there are guns at a certain residence. Well it stands to reason if a guy has a licence, there is a darn good chance there is a gun in there. And if he isn’t licenced and he is about to have his house swarmed by LEO’s then it stands to reason, there is a pretty good chance there is a gun in the house. So why painstakingly list every single firearm in the country to the tune of $1 000 000 000 CAD knowing the house already resides a licenced owner if the intent is not for confiscation? There is no arguing the confiscation point, the Lieberals have already showed their hand on this count. Remember Martin standing in Toronto promising to “ban handguns”. Right now I believe Charest has banning semi-auto rifles as part of his election platform in PQ and the federal Lieberals have a resolution on their books promising to ban semi-autos if they get back in power. So when you tell me to "grow up. Be an adult" and "No one is going to take my guns away" you come across as woefully uninformed at best. At the end of the day, when all the law abiding folks(that's me by the way, all mine are registered) have lost their firearms I’m guessing that criminals are still gonna have theirs. The end result will likely be an increase in crime rates, since criminals have just been guaranteed a safe workplace. One just has to look to England to see what has happened to crime rates since they had strict firearms laws enacted. I hope I’ve shed a little light on the plight of firearms owners in Canada. So when someone who is well intended but mis-informed tells me registration is harmless and I should quit whining I take exception. Christ Almighty Carla Homolka has more rights under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms than firearm owners. That doesn’t sit right with me. Tell me how does that sit with you?

I have referred to gun owners as whiners and immature babies, but not all gun owners. Only the ones whining and acting like immature babies about registering their weapons. The mature ones who just do it are fine in my book. As for the rest of what I supposedly called gun owners, you should read my posts again only this time do it slowly, carefully and without the defensive attitude.

We live in a democracy and you can vote for a party that won't take away your guns. If memory serves we already have. In any event, gun owners do not make up the majority in this country and if the rest of the people decide they don't want your hand guns or semi's in the country, suck it up and get rid of them. Either that or move out to that survivalist camp I mentioned earlier and wait for the RCMP to come and pay a visit. But for now, you lucky people, all you have to do is register them. Now, I don't whine about registering my car, so I don't think you should whine about registering your weapons. It makes you look paranoid and immature.

[xsbank]

Just because some dumb-shit politico tells you that something is right, or should be done, or will make your life better to do it, does not mean that it is good policy. If you happen to be the kind of person who just sucks it up and follows blindly, you do not have the right to be high and mighty towards those who think the policy is wrong.

Guns are not, and have never been, a problem in Canada.

Way more people get killed on snowmobiles than with guns; or driving to work today. All that stuff is registered in order to suck the fees out of them. Registration is a waste of resources unless you are planning to tax or confiscate, neither of which are going to have any higher purpose. Saying guns are a problem is out-and-out claptrap, designed to scare you and distract you from real problems in Canada, like homelessness.

If you are going to use a personal attack to make your point, Rocky, then you have taken even your rhetoric down to school-yard levels.

[ocnek]

. norris has no need for firearms.....but he does have to register both his legs.

I forgot about is legs. Yes indeed. He might need a 12(6) for that. (Permission to have in possession prohibited weapons)

[spooky]

I just happened to drop in on this interesting thread.

"just a mugging", what the @#$! is just a mugging?

I suppose the Mafia would call it just a mugging, I would call it assault.

How would you like to be just mugged? Some people having undergone just a mugging have had just a funeral and have been just consigned to the graveyard for just the rest of their lives.

That's just my opinion.

[spooky]

An estimated 90% of firearms owners in Canada are in violation of the Firearms Act regulations due to ignorance, negligence, or civil disobedience.
If the police did a raid on your house today, you would likely be charged with one or more criminal offenses under the Firearms Act.
An anonymous "firearms threat" tip from a personal opponent can lead to an unannounced police raid on your home.
The goal of the Firearms Act is to gradually eliminate private ownership of guns. We either fight the gun law now, or one-by-one firearm owners will be hunted down by its complexity and harsh penalties.

http://www.brucemontague.ca/html/0160.html

Remember the government also promoted aluminum wiring and urea foam insulation. For those too young, the government later encouraged removing the urea (at the homeowner's expense) as it is hazardous to your health, and aluminum wiring has caused many house fires.