The man at the end of the handshake.

victory_aviation · Post by **victory_aviation** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:32 pm

Although I am very new to the aviation industry I have seen and heard some things that really make me think. I had a guy who is from France tell me something that also made me think about the way we do things here.

Before flying he would always go to the AME that was responsible for his aircraft and shake his hand. He explained to me that all the AME's and pilots understood that this handshake was more then the usual handshake. The AME knew that the man at the end of this handshake was the man they were killing if they didn't do their job. The pilots would sign the aircraft out from the AME and when the flight was completed he would return his aircraft to the AME with another handshake.

Might seem like a stupid post but this really made me think about the way we do things here. When I hear stories about operators sending their pilots off with broken or poorly maintained equipment just to save a few dollars. Aircraft crashing because they ran out of fuel in flight(Pilot Error, but demonstrates poor operational control).

Do Canadian Operators(Some not all) simply not care about their employees? Or is not maintaining their aircraft properly and risking pilots, passengers, ground crew, etc lives the only way aviation businesses can survive?

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:40 pm

In my long career, I never met a mechanic that wasn't at least as professional as I was. Sometimes there is friction between 'them' and 'us,' but it can usually be overcome with a 'safety meeting' (bar).

The ground guys usually get the junk when we're finished with it and they have to fix it while we go home to the bar or bed (there are other options, but you know). That makes some of them cranky. Plus, the owner may be putting pressure on them to stretch things a bit, which adds stress.

Just follow the rules and remember you both need each other. The handshake thing? Gawd you don't expect me to touch one, do you!?

RC320 · Post by **RC320** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:09 pm

Interesting idea, however I could see it becoming so routine, that either may forget, or let pass by, the reason they're shaking hands in the first place

complacency sucks doesn't it?

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:18 pm

There have only been a handfull of MECH's that I didn't totally trust, and not one of those would deliberately send an unsafe machine flying. Sure I have seen some sketchy "ground checked servicable" signitures, but notning really posing a safety issue.

The only problem I have is watching guys fix my machine while drinking. I have seen that more then a few times. Not a fan of that.

RC320 · Post by **RC320** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:19 pm

KAG wrote:There have only been a handfull of MECH's that I didn't totally trust, and not one of those would deliberately send an unsafe machine flying. Sure I have seen some sketchy "ground checked servicable" signitures, but notning really posing a safety issue.

The only problem I have is watching guys fix my machine while drinking. I have seen that more then a few times. Not a fan of that.

did you report it?

Blakey · Post by **Blakey** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:24 pm

We have an even better system for the C-150 in the Air Force. When I go flying, the AME comes too!

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:34 pm

KAG wrote:The only problem I have is watching guys fix my machine while drinking. I have seen that more then a few times. Not a fan of that.

WTF!

Yeah, i would be uncomfortable too!

Kid · Post by **Kid** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:38 pm

The only problem I have is watching guys fix my machine while drinking. I have seen that more then a few times. Not a fan of that.[/quote]

Personally I prefer to watch the "ballet" or shoot pool while drinking, maybe you should change what you're drinking?

YACdirect · Post by **YACdirect** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:44 pm

KAG wrote:The only problem I have is watching guys fix my machine while drinking. I have seen that more then a few times. Not a fan of that.

Yikes. Scary stuff.

Suggest you report that - someone is going to get killed because of a maintenance oversight.

victory_aviation · Post by **victory_aviation** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:21 pm

Blakey wrote:We have an even better system for the C-150 in the Air Force. When I go flying, the AME comes too!

That is better.

JigglyBus · Post by **JigglyBus** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:36 pm

We have an even better system for the C-150 in the Air Force. When I go flying, the AME comes too!

The airforce has Cessna 150's now????

I don't normally like to nitpick typo's but find it odd that a Hercules pilot would ever mistakenly call it a C-150.

conehead · Post by **conehead** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:44 pm

KAG wrote:The only problem I have is watching guys fix my machine while drinking.

Then you should watch something else while drinking.

You're not serious, are you?

duCapo · Post by **duCapo** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:49 pm

Over the years, I have seen some AME treated like shit. I couldn't believe some of the crap they had to put up with from some owners, and alot of pilots. It was only pride of their work and real professonalism that kept some clunkers safe. My hat is off to them.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:10 pm

It is my experience that fixing them is a better and more rewarding job than flying them

I also feel it takes more knowlege and work ethic.

But that is only my own thoughts from having spent a life time doing both jobs.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:24 pm

Cat Driver wrote:It is my experience that fixing them is a better and more rewarding job than flying them

I also feel it takes more knowlege and work ethic.

But that is only my own thoughts from having spent a life time doing both jobs.

Sorry Cat,

Can't agree with you there.... The only thing worse than fixing airplanes, is fixing cars....

AME's have a thankless job, just try to show them the respect they deserve, and they'll reciprocate in kind.

STL

ScudRunner · Post by **ScudRunner** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:41 pm

I always like my Mechanics a little cranky, makes me think that there working hard to fix it.

dashx · Post by **dashx** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:35 pm

The French are extremely emotionally to start with. Sounds very melodramatic. Get some freedom fries and wash it down with some plonk

Watching AME's fix planes (more than one occasion?) while drinking? Did you have to dual the work afterwards?

C-150's in the Air Force? Do they have hard points?

I don't take s-hit from pilots/owners/AME's anymore. If I am wrong I will apologize. I take care of my crew and I expect my crew to take care of me. I've told at least one AME to go home and sober up before coming back. I've also been part of a crew that did the same to a captain. Let's just say he was a little more humble the next day. Not to mention sober.

If an AME releases an A/C that is not airworthy what are you going to do? I know what I would do. What do you do if a pilot takes an A/C knowing there is something wrong with it? We all have a responsibility when it comes to safety.

Oh and "ground checked servicable"? In accordance with what? (IAW MM Chapter XX). Now you need a maintenance manual reference when you do that .....

rsandor · Post by **rsandor** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:03 pm

I have to agree with Cat, fixing (or building) your own airplane is generally far more rewarding than flying it. The most rewarding experience, I imagine, being building your own airplane and then flying it afterwards.

Of course, hand-flying and greasing an IMC approach to minimums in a stiff crosswind with an engine out is obviously more rewarding than changing the brakes on your Cessna.

One of the things I learned when I started working on my own car was that no one will fix your car as carefully and thouroughly as you will. (assuming you know what you're doing) Think about it. If the mechanic isn't racing your car around a track or flying your plane in the air, his life isn't on the line. He couldn't care less if the work he did was A+ or just a C, as long as it holds together.

Blakey · Post by **Blakey** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:38 am

JigglyBus wrote:
We have an even better system for the C-150 in the Air Force. When I go flying, the AME comes too!
The airforce has Cessna 150's now????

I don't normally like to nitpick typo's but find it odd that a Hercules pilot would ever mistakenly call it a C-150.

Nope; no Cessna 150's here. Last Cessna's we had were 182's in the seventies. I believe the cadets still use some Birddogs for glider towing though.

One of the great things about the Air Force is that you can change equipment without leaving the company. I took a bit of a hiatus from CC130 driving to fly the mighty Airbus 310 a few years back. We can't just call it the A310 though (we're military you know!) so we named it the CC150 Polaris. C-150 for short. Not only do the AME's who turn the wrenches on the bird go flying on it regularly, some of them have been with these particular airframes since they were bought new by WardAir! These guys really know these airplanes and really do an outstanding job. We have an excellent rapport with them as well. There's no "What did it do when you jiggled the switch? What, you never jiggled the switch?" talks when you snag it on return. The AME comes up to the cockpit and has a look to see what's going on right now. Having him ride along makes an excellent "outside the box" answer for the "what do you do when a passenger sees an oil leak?" question too! The AME's love it; just try to bid on the position here and see what seniority you need to hold it!