Fixed + Rotor wing pilot

bandit1 · Post by **bandit1** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:06 am

I heard a rumour that in the near future pilots are not going to be allowed to fly both fixed and rotor wing.

Something about not being able to be insured because of engine failure procedures being completely opposite to each other???

Anyway, just something I heard.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:30 pm

I haven't heard anything like that, and if I did it would only serve to make me laugh.

That's like saying I can't drive a car and a motorcycle....

Where did you hear that btw?

STL

Fully Articulated · Post by **Fully Articulated** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:33 pm

Hi Bandit 1, sounds a little hard to believe. That's like saying you can't fly both single and twin engine helicopters because the engine failure procedures are different.

Cheers,
FA

bandit1 · Post by **bandit1** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:26 pm

I know, that's why I'm asking. I heard that in the Robinson helicopters they are putting a placard saying no fixed wing pilots.

Apparently it's the insurance companies that don't like it.

I personnally thinks it's BS because like you said, it would be like someone not allowed to ride a bike and skateboard, or drive a car and bike. Or sleep with a white girl and a black girl.

It came from someone who is looking to buy an R44 who is a fixed wing pilot.

I hope it's not true because I was looking at getting into choppers.

Besides, if it was true, then they'd have to crack down on all the idiots that can even fly one type properly.

ScudRunner · Post by **ScudRunner** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:31 pm

What will happen to these pilots?

Cant fly at all

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:46 pm

The question is: How much you going to pay a guy with lots of FW MIRF, and lots of RW time to fly that???? LOL....

Actually, it's more like, is there a market for it....

STL

rotorfloat · Post by **rotorfloat** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:50 pm

Is this something new bandit?

I remember reading this safety notice when I was training, is this what you were refering to?

Robinson Safety Notice

bandit1 · Post by **bandit1** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:20 am

That's exactly what I was talking about. Due to that, alot of insurance companies don't like insuring both fixed and rotor wing pilots.

I think it's BS. Like you said, riding a motorbike and driving a car.

If you turned the handlebars like you would a car steering wheel at 120kph, you'd be dead right?

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:49 am

If I'm legally not allowed to fly a Robinson product - FANTASTIC!! LOL.

I think the issue with Insurance is moot at this point though. On MANY of the insurance forms I've filled in for customers ranging from BCFS, to Oil Companies, there's specific mention of related FW time being an asset. Additional rating such as Multi Engine, IFR, and FW experience is considered a bonus from everything I've seen so far.

IMHO, any pilot with a broad range of experience/time/ratings under their belt, is just that much more situationally aware in a given environment. As Fully Articulated stated, it's like saying single engine rotary pilots would be unable to fly multi engined machines. Having flown them all, the Engine Out procedures between single and twin engined helicopters are the farthest apart in instinctive reaction, and the time in which that reaction is required is generally small.

I would be VERY surprised if there was ever a legal/insurance issue with flying both.

STL

bandit1 · Post by **bandit1** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:58 am

Why did Robinson even bother putting out that notice?

Seems like it would only be bad for business. Discourages fixed wing pilots from flying choppers

round pounder · Post by **round pounder** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:39 pm

I have 5 Robbies sitting outside my office none of them have that placard on them!

rotorfloat · Post by **rotorfloat** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:04 pm

Anything Robinson can do to distance themselves from liability, they will...including specific policys, bullitens and recommendations.

A lot of these policys are the result of private operators' accidents, who for the most part are lacking in training and experience to begin with.

You can't pick up a factory-new machine without taking their safety course. This probably stemmed from a machine piling it in after leaving the factory.

When you do leave Torrance with a new delivery, you must follow their flight plan to your destination. Probably had to do with an aircraft going missing after leaving the factory...just a guess.

The latest is during new deliveries, dual controls must be removed if the passenger is not licensed.

This came from a recent accident of a new 5-hour R44 that broke apart in cruise after leaving the factory. Evidence suggests that the tail boom attachment failed in some manner. Robinson doesn't want to hear this. They want to say the unlicensed passenger was flying and overcontrolled it, hence the new 'no duals' rule. The preliminary on this is here

What's next?

If you fly helicopters with clockwise rotor systems will you all the sudden not be capable of maintaining coordinatin or directional control if you fly one of their sophisticated machines??

I cannot understand the insurance thing. That bulletin is 13 years old. Why all the excitement now? This is a training issue anyways.

round pounder · Post by **round pounder** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:06 pm

we send guys to torrence just about every month to pick up or drop off machines, we have never been told which way to fly or how to fly in and out as for leaving duals in the machine would you want a non pilot sitting in your machine with a set of duals, once again new machine sitting here with no placards on them, "keep tugging on that collective you know shes going to fly"

kingeddie · Post by **kingeddie** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:06 pm

My Two cents

If there turns out to be any truth to this the insurance underwriters involved should be shot with balls of thier own shit!!
In my carreer I have flown both FW and RW succesfully and if anything the skills complement each other ,particularely IFR skills and SOP disciplines used in large multi engine airplanes improve your airmanship when you are VFR single pilot in a helicopter single or multi engine . I am a training pilot on the AS350 series and a CL415 pilot ,no problem . The bottom line is if you are serious about participating in both disciplines the onus is on you to be intimately familiar with the emergency procedures and be proficient in the type you fly. Because lets face it as much as we like to think differently all the machines are easy to fly . Its when things go off the rails that your own knowledge and skill matter.

Also a parting thought ."Any friend will help you move......Your best friend will help you move a corpse"

Eddie

2milefinal · Post by **2milefinal** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:43 am

I agree kingeddie,

Insurance companies love to make a big deal out of nothing. I have 18 years experience of working in the crazy business and the insurance underwriter still give me and my company problems.
Its all got to do with making more money (for the insurance company that is) . Its nothing more then that.

Ogee · Post by **Ogee** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:20 pm

bandit1 wrote:I heard a rumour that in the near future pilots are not going to be allowed to fly both fixed and rotor wing.

Something about not being able to be insured because of engine failure procedures being completely opposite to each other???

Anyway, just something I heard.

Well, I know COPA won't insure you if you fly both.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:41 pm

Ogee wrote:
bandit1 wrote:I heard a rumour that in the near future pilots are not going to be allowed to fly both fixed and rotor wing.

Something about not being able to be insured because of engine failure procedures being completely opposite to each other???

Anyway, just something I heard.
Well, I know COPA won't insure you if you fly both.

Pardon?

STL

Ogee · Post by **Ogee** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:00 am

Got that about two months ago while talking to their insurers. It doesn't mean that they won't insure you if you have both categories, but if you are intending to fly both categories while you are insured?

Or at least thats the way I understood it. I may have gotten it wrong.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:57 pm

This has to be the most stupid thing I've ever read on Avcanada.

With that mindset you should have to take a taxi home after you park your airplane because it is to difficult to drive your car if you fly an airplane.

Shit I used to do traffic patrol every morning and evening five days a week in the Hughes 300 and fly fixed wings for the rest of the day.

I never ever had any problem figuring out what I was flying at any given time...

..whoever thinks up this crap has some real issues that should bar them from even sitting in any machine..they might hurt themselves.

r22captain · Post by **r22captain** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:04 pm

Cat is dah man.......best response ever.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:51 pm

Yeh r22, sometimes I am so amazed by some of the stupid fu.king ideas that are posted on Avcanada I can't beleive it.

I used to be chief pilot for a company in Windsor Ont. and started my day with traffic patrol over Detroit in a Hughes 300, then during the day flew any of the different airplanes we operated, Beech 18...Apache...De havilland Dove ...and a bunch of single engine trainers....in the afternoon I was back on the helicopter again for the evening traffic patrol for the radio station....

...never, ever did I have a problem with how to fly any of the different machines, and I managed to drive my car as well.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:39 pm

Cat,

I hear you. I manage to drive a helicopter, airplane, AND my Wife crazy.... Now that, takes talent....

stl

Fixed + Rotor wing pilot

Fixed + Rotor wing pilot

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Re: Fixed + Rotor wing pilot