12 weeks and still no answer?

asscrack · Post by **asscrack** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:02 am

What is the deal with AC? I did my interview, psych testing, ect.. 3 months ago. Is the fact I have heard nothing a positive or a negative? Have they just lost my file? WTF Over!

Perhaps I should masturabted small animals or wished to be a florist.

timbuck · Post by **timbuck** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:16 am

Don't worry asscrack, " no news is good news" Just pick-up the phone and give them a call, I'm pretty sure they won't mind you calling. I gave a call after I had waited for 3 months, they told me to keep calling every 2 weeks if I hadn't heard anything, I got the call after 5 months... I still think its a crazy amount of time to figure out if the want sombody.

Are you a newhire at jazz? If so what gs were you on?

Good luck, timbuck.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:09 am

It's a bloody joke is what it is. There is little reason to take 3,4,5 months to figure out they want to hire or not to hire someone. I feel for those that are waiting.

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:23 am

That's what I say... Wj can decide in less than 2 weeks

TopperHarley · Post by **TopperHarley** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:41 am

I know a guy who has been waiting for 6+ months now.

crazy8 · Post by **crazy8** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:41 am

I waited nearly 5 months before I got PFO'd. Takes way too long to make a decision I think.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:47 am

That's what I say... Wj can decide in less than 2 weeks

Oh God. here we go....

2low · Post by **2low** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:30 am

apples and oranges.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:21 pm

2low wrote:apples and oranges.

Yup, WJ cares abouts it's employees, and AC doesn't.

...No worries Tonny, I'll leave the "owner" crap out of it...

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:54 pm

Apples and oranges. You guys have made your choice. Now do the honorable thing to earn respect. STF UP!!

thrust set · Post by **thrust set** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:01 pm

Before we get into a pissing match over hiring practices one has to look at predicting aircraft pilot training success and that what the bottom line is for Air Canada. Lets get some facts straight here, the validity of a personality and psychological questionnaire and cognitive screening for the prediction of job success of airline pilots were compared to simulator checkflights for newhire candidates. During selection, pilots applying for employment with major airlines (eight to be exact took part in the study) were examined with a multidimensional personality questionnaire (Temperament Structure Scales; TSS) and a computer cognitive screening tool. Additionally, the applicants were graded in a simulator checkflight. In a multiple-regression model, this dichotomous criterion for job success can be predicted with 68.8% accuracy through the simulator checkflight . The personality questionnaire/cog tests to the regression equation, the number for job success increases to 81.3%. On average, successful pilots score substantially higher on interpersonal scales and lower on emotional scales of the TSS. Meaning these tests do have some weight in your hiring.

We have an HR firm that will screen all applicants before starting the process at this stage. Then your interview and testing will take place. Your results of the three psyc tests and cog screen will be sent away to an outside firm for analysis then sent back to Air Canada where all scores including your interview will be placed in a file where the hiring board then looks through each candidate on a lengthy basis. You will then be placed in a pool and depending on your score you will either receive a call or a letter. Some have received a call very quickly meaning your score compared to the pool was very positive at the time and an offer for employment thus came fast to these individuals. On the same token if your score was substantially lower a letter will be sent out within two weeks. Now where some have found it confusing is what if your score is decent but at the time the pool was strong. Then because the hiring is very rapid the pool continues to change, one might remain in for a longer than expected time. Or can be in the pool for many months to find the pool being filled with very qualified candidates and your placement in the pool drops out of the required number Air Canada keeps on as active and a letter will then be sent out advising to reapply in six months.

Remember Air Canada has a fleet of EMB 175/190, A319/320/321/330/340, B-767, B-777 and their hiring practice is more complicated than just a simple interview.

It's not that Air Canada doesn't care but their process is different than most in Canada, but not that different from major airlines throughout the world.

Inverted2 · Post by **Inverted2** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:49 pm

That didn't stop them from hiring some really strange individuals though........

Heard they have a big machine from a bingo hall and place each applicants name on a ball and that's how you're chosen.

rigpiggy · Post by **rigpiggy** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:10 pm

how about your recently terminated snooze pilot. they passed the cog?

thrust set · Post by **thrust set** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:35 pm

Now have these "strange" individuals all remained employed? Have they done their day to day duties to satisfaction? We can easily say that the process kept us from hiring some really strange ones as well. About the letting go of a newly hired cruise relief pilot do you want to comment on the circumstances why this person was let go? I know the reason and lets just say it's unfortunate that those steps had to take place.

The easiest thing we can say is "that the hiring practice does not make sense" and try bring on a very negative slant to Air Canada. It by all means is a very organized and detailed way of selecting pilots. We all know very talented people who were turned down. I have my own experience as my brother at Jazz was given a PFO letter. But I was not there for his interview or maybe he was tired for the Cog test and answered the psyc tests thinking how they wanted the answers and not truthfully. He latter re-applied after 6 months and was able to get a course date.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:14 pm

tonysoprano wrote:Apples and oranges. You guys have made your choice. Now do the honorable thing to earn respect. STF UP!!

Earn respect? by what placing my tail between my legs and keep my opinions to myself? thats rich. If I don't have your (or anyone's else's) by now, I never will. just making an observation. There is no reason to make anyone wait 3-6 months for an answer. If it does take that long, then the process is inefficent and most likely costly. IMHO anyway.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:10 pm

Kag.
I've said the same things about AC hiring tactics many times. No argument there. I'm refering to what has started to be an "AC this, AC that, glad I left" saga. Not so much you yet, but twinpratts for sure. You guys haven't even left the property yet and it's already started. I knew it was coming and this is only the start. You won't have to worry about how long it takes to get a call, will you? And please, spare us the "I have many good friends still there so I care" routine. Thanks for your input but frankly, we don't care. Now go practice being happy and study hard for Clive's airline economics exam.

Inverted2 · Post by **Inverted2** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:31 pm

thrust set wrote:Now have these "strange" individuals all remained employed? Have they done their day to day duties to satisfaction? We can easily say that the process kept us from hiring some really strange ones as well. About the letting go of a newly hired cruise relief pilot do you want to comment on the circumstances why this person was let go? I know the reason and lets just say it's unfortunate that those steps had to take place.

The easiest thing we can say is "that the hiring practice does not make sense" and try bring on a very negative slant to Air Canada. It by all means is a very organized and detailed way of selecting pilots. We all know very talented people who were turned down. I have my own experience as my brother at Jazz was given a PFO letter. But I was not there for his interview or maybe he was tired for the Cog test and answered the psyc tests thinking how they wanted the answers and not truthfully. He latter re-applied after 6 months and was able to get a course date.

So you have basically stated how flawed the AC hiring process is. The snoozer that got let go got hired because daddy made it happen, I guarantee it.
As for your brother, good example. I dont understand how if these so called psych tests are so good, then how can you do them once and not get on, and all the sudden do them again and you're in. If you lie on the tests, or get "coached" on how to answer them (cause god knows we'd all like the answers!) then what good are they?

They should IMHO:

a) Have a sim ride to weed out those who don't cut it

b) Have a more comprehensive interview. Anyone can tell war stories on how they had to pump down the gear manually, or if not, make up a storie based on someone else.

c)Call references/Call previous employers. Several ppl I know got PFO'd without their references being called.

End of Rant!

yycflyguy · Post by **yycflyguy** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:42 pm

They should IMHO:

a) Have a sim ride to weed out those who don't cut it

b) Have a more comprehensive interview. Anyone can tell war stories on how they had to pump down the gear manually, or if not, make up a storie based on someone else.

c)Call references/Call previous employers. Several ppl I know got PFO'd without their references being called.

Sim time is expensive and difficult to obtain when your fleet is growing and is needed for training. Pilots who are being interviewed have thousands of hours of TT and previous experience in a sim setting, I doubt that there would be pilots that "don't cut it"

Why would anyone waste time on calling references if the decision not to hire has already been made? Previous employers have to be very careful what they say about a candidate for fear of libel/slander litigation and anyone can submit a list of "buddies" who will give glowing recomendations. Calling references is basically the last chance to catch a candidate in a big fat lie.

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:18 pm

thrust set wrote: It's not that Air Canada doesn't care but their process is different than most in Canada, but not that different from major airlines throughout the world.

I don't know man... I had heard back from Cathay in less than 3 weeks. I still say it's too much time, to expect a guy to put his life on hold for.
My 2cents worth.

asscrack · Post by **asscrack** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:41 pm

Wow, I don't feel so alone after reading everyone's experience's.

So, Thrustset,

If I understand you correctly, one is assigned a score after the whole thing is over between 1-100 lets say. Minimum cutoff for the pool is 80% (again just picking a number. But the pool only holds the top 100 candidates regardless of minimum score. (Again 100 is my number for this demo)

So in this example I score maybe an 85% overall, that gets me into the pool, but there maybe be 90 other guys with 86% or higher, so I either treading water a really long time, or when 10 more guys with 86 or higher enter the pool (with no one leaving) I get a PFO.

IS my take on this correct?

thrust set · Post by **thrust set** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:58 pm

"So you have basically stated how flawed the AC hiring process is."

Actually I never stated how flawed the process is, you did. You mention one example out of the approximately 450 pilots that have been hired so far since 2005. I can only count on one hand the individuals that have been let go and that equates to a success rate of about 98.8% for our hiring department.

Well my brother was a good example of remaining in the pool for almost four months while the pool eventually was filled with candidates whose total score made my brothers position drop out altogether. One can only speculate what did go wrong, although he did admit that his interview could have been stronger. After he got over the initial shock of being rejected with all the stages of grief. He regrouped applied again ,had some better references i.e. three Capt's from AC and got a good nights sleep before the second attempt at all the stages.

"a) Have a sim ride to weed out those who don't cut it "

Economics and availability usually have made the screening of applicants drop the sim assessment altogether. From what I hear Jazz may be dropping theirs in the near future. Does Westjet use their 737-200 or 700 sims?

"Have a more comprehensive interview....Anyone can tell war stories"

See you don't get the point. In this sort of interview, the interviewers tend to ask questions about general situations, with the candidate asked to describe how they did or would handle a specific problem. I have seen the booklet that you will be asked and it will cover enough questions that will evaluate your decision making, problem solving, leadership and professionalism, relationships and social interactions, stress and initiative. Remember it's your interview not just telling old war stories.

"I had heard back from Cathay in less than 3 weeks"

Well good for you, I hope everything did go alright at Cathay and you will enjoy a long and prosperous career over there. I have had friends wait for many months at Cathay and the Emirates.

Asscrack, you essentially have the basic idea of how the process works with maybe a little more I'm leaving out but in a nutshell it's pretty close. My comments are here to try and eliminate the confusion towards the hiring process, stressing the fact that their are many steps involved into being selected.

priceless · Post by **priceless** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:09 am

hey KAG, you sit here and all of a sudden your a freakin expert go WJ afficianado. funny, you go to JAZZ and in less than a dogs year your jumping over to WJ! HMM, you know people like you are what @#$! up this industry. In my opinon you have no ground to stand on in putting down AC or JAZZ for that matter.

priceless · Post by **priceless** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:10 am

delete.

asscrack · Post by **asscrack** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:59 am

Thrustset,

thank you for your insight.

Blue side up!

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:30 am

priceless wrote:hey KAG, you sit here and all of a sudden your a freakin expert go WJ afficianado. funny, you go to JAZZ and in less than a dogs year your jumping over to WJ! HMM, you know people like you are what @#$! up this industry. In my opinon you have no ground to stand on in putting down AC or JAZZ for that matter.

People like me that @#$! up this industry? why because I won't settle for poverty wage for the next 14 years, cause thats how long it takes to reach 60K as a copilot here at Jazz. And yes there are copilots that have been here and longer (but thats by choice of base)
Also the only thing I knock Jazz for is the pay (and yes I sorta knew what it was when starting, but didn't know how low nor how long it lasts), it's actually a good place to work.

So if by wanting a descent standart of living and doing something about it is fucking up the industry, then I'm guilty as charged.
And for the record, I have been at jazz for around 14 months, I figure thats about enough time to judge a company if it's a good long term move or not.

Tonny, I'll make sure to study extra hard...lol