I agree with e-mail bombing ....er, avalanche (let's not make threatening stuff here...)
All the same, I am going to invite a flaming.
If you have a bill, you have two choices:
1.) Pay
2.) Don't pay.
Don't pay includes negotiating the bill to zero, or at least to a reasonable cost. It also includes pursuit of your finances to get payment.
Over the past few years, the $55 fee has been raised on Avcanada several times as unreasonable. Nobody did anything.
Now, we are e-mail avalanching to right a wrong that should have been corrected years ago. If we win, will we get a refund?
I certainly support objecting to this TCCA misuse of us, I phoned and objected several years ago and I did not pay my fee until very late, so expect a letter too. I just wonder where all you objectors were before? Have a lot of companies quit paying medical fees?
Through an association, or Ombudsman, this could have been ironed out ages ago.
TC sends Collection Agency after me
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
-
snaproll20
- Rank 7
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:50 pm
Sorry, forgot to back up my comment by pointing out that as of this moment, there are over 10,000 hits on this topic but only 250 people feel strongly enough to make a post.
How many do you suppose are e-mail avalanching the government?
TC wins again. Divide and conquer, with self-devision doing the job.
But, think of the potential.............
How many do you suppose are e-mail avalanching the government?
TC wins again. Divide and conquer, with self-devision doing the job.
But, think of the potential.............
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
The math is easy Snaproll....even 250 people hitting send multiple times a day with a computer properly addressed to multiple offices adds up real quick into something they can not ignore, nor control.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
-
snaproll20
- Rank 7
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:50 pm
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
We need someone to write a good letter for everyone to use, so we are all the same.
I would offer but somehow I think that a letter with descriptive words such as coc.suckers would not be to our best intrest.
I would offer but somehow I think that a letter with descriptive words such as coc.suckers would not be to our best intrest.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
-
flyinthebug
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1689
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:36 am
- Location: CYPA
We need a well written, literate letter which we will all send, CC to as many different pertinate departments, and emailed as many times per day as we possibly can. Now if you REALLY want to email bomb them (Goverment Csuckers, there are ways which I will not post on this forum. I don't want to get the owners of AvCanada in deep shit:-)
Rule #62 "Don't take yourself so damn seriously"
Dear Sirs:
I am writing this letter to protest the Transport Canada medical fee as an unfair, arbitrary and exorbitant tax that penalizes pilots and discriminates against members of that group by age.
There is no justification for this fee as the examining doctor completes all the paperwork and decides whether the candidate is fit to fly; the pilot pays the doctor directly for that service. A fee is a cost paid in exchange for a service provided. There is no service provided by Transport Canada for this fee. All of the publications, with the exception of the abolished AIP, are paid for directly by the users.
Pilots over 40 are required to have 2 medical exams every year. This results in the doubling of the medical ‘fee.’
Furthermore, pilots who have withheld their medical fee from Transport Canada have had their income tax garnisheed to recover this fee. This ‘fee’ is therefore a tax on pilots. This tax rate doubles based solely on the pilot’s age.
To single out a specific group to be taxed, and to further tax this group based upon the sole criterion of age goes contrary to the Canadian Charter of Right and Freedoms:
15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.
I am asking you to abolish this unfair and prejudicial pilot tax. In addition, as this tax was obtained from the pilot population in a fraudulent and prejudicial manner, I am asking you to return the 'medical fee' to every person who you have coerced into paying.
Sincerely,
I am writing this letter to protest the Transport Canada medical fee as an unfair, arbitrary and exorbitant tax that penalizes pilots and discriminates against members of that group by age.
There is no justification for this fee as the examining doctor completes all the paperwork and decides whether the candidate is fit to fly; the pilot pays the doctor directly for that service. A fee is a cost paid in exchange for a service provided. There is no service provided by Transport Canada for this fee. All of the publications, with the exception of the abolished AIP, are paid for directly by the users.
Pilots over 40 are required to have 2 medical exams every year. This results in the doubling of the medical ‘fee.’
Furthermore, pilots who have withheld their medical fee from Transport Canada have had their income tax garnisheed to recover this fee. This ‘fee’ is therefore a tax on pilots. This tax rate doubles based solely on the pilot’s age.
To single out a specific group to be taxed, and to further tax this group based upon the sole criterion of age goes contrary to the Canadian Charter of Right and Freedoms:
15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.
I am asking you to abolish this unfair and prejudicial pilot tax. In addition, as this tax was obtained from the pilot population in a fraudulent and prejudicial manner, I am asking you to return the 'medical fee' to every person who you have coerced into paying.
Sincerely,
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
-
snaproll20
- Rank 7
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:50 pm
Trey
good letter and I know if we edit to everyone's satisfaction, it will never go out.
however, second paragraph introduces "publications" without explaining that we are paying (double) for something not identified on the invoice.
Can you expand on that a little as the letter may go to someone not in the know about this (like the Minister).
good letter and I know if we edit to everyone's satisfaction, it will never go out.
however, second paragraph introduces "publications" without explaining that we are paying (double) for something not identified on the invoice.
Can you expand on that a little as the letter may go to someone not in the know about this (like the Minister).
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
And please, please point out the fact that a lot of pilots are having their credit rating damaged by sloppy invoicing and the use of a collection agency for fees already paid...
Good letter, wish I could write like that, but if you need some real attention getting words I know them.
Good letter, wish I could write like that, but if you need some real attention getting words I know them.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
I agree with Cat, good letter. Lets make the corrections and "Bombs Away"Cat Driver wrote:And please, please point out the fact that a lot of pilots are having their credit rating damaged by sloppy invoicing and the use of a collection agency for fees already paid...
Good letter, wish I could write like that, but if you need some real attention getting words I know them.
Rule #62 "Don't take yourself so damn seriously"
Snap roll
while I wish I could take credit for that letter, it was in fact, XSBANK, who put it together...nice piece of work.
I will start sending it Monday.
I think everyone should send at least one copy to the minister, one to the prime minister, and one to the finance minister.
I am not sure sending multiple copies every day, although quite satisfying, will really amount to anything more than their opinion that we are harrassing them
Hope some of those others will act.
while I wish I could take credit for that letter, it was in fact, XSBANK, who put it together...nice piece of work.
I will start sending it Monday.
I think everyone should send at least one copy to the minister, one to the prime minister, and one to the finance minister.
I am not sure sending multiple copies every day, although quite satisfying, will really amount to anything more than their opinion that we are harrassing them
Hope some of those others will act.
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
It would be definately negative for our position to e-mail more than once to the elected officials.
Now the TC offices in Tower C is fair game in my mind.
Now the TC offices in Tower C is fair game in my mind.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
How's this?
Dear Sir:
I am writing this letter to protest the Transport Canada medical fee as an unfair, arbitrary and exorbitant tax that penalizes pilots and discriminates against members of that group by age.
There is no justification for this fee as the examining doctor completes all the paperwork and decides whether the candidate is fit to fly; the pilot pays the doctor directly for that service.
A fee is a cost paid in exchange for a service provided. There is no service provided by Transport Canada for this fee. The services that Transport does provide to pilots are publications and licensing, yet all of the publications, with the exception of the recently-abolished AIP, and all licensing, is paid for directly by the users.
Pilots over 40 are required to have 2 medical exams every year. This results in the doubling of the medical ‘fee.’
Furthermore, pilots who have withheld their medical fee from Transport Canada have had their income tax garnisheed to recover this fee. This ‘fee’ is therefore a tax on pilots; this tax rate doubles based solely upon the pilot’s age.
Transport Canada’s record-keeping is so abysmal that many pilots who have already paid are being harassed by a collection agency, seriously threatening the credit ratings of those targeted.
To single out a specific group to be taxed, and to further tax this group based upon the sole criterion of age goes contrary to the Canadian Charter of Right and Freedoms:
15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.
I am asking you to abolish this unfair and prejudicial pilot tax. In addition, as this tax was obtained from the pilot population in a fraudulent and prejudicial manner, I am asking you to return the 'medical fee' to every person who has been coerced into paying.
Sincerely,
Dear Sir:
I am writing this letter to protest the Transport Canada medical fee as an unfair, arbitrary and exorbitant tax that penalizes pilots and discriminates against members of that group by age.
There is no justification for this fee as the examining doctor completes all the paperwork and decides whether the candidate is fit to fly; the pilot pays the doctor directly for that service.
A fee is a cost paid in exchange for a service provided. There is no service provided by Transport Canada for this fee. The services that Transport does provide to pilots are publications and licensing, yet all of the publications, with the exception of the recently-abolished AIP, and all licensing, is paid for directly by the users.
Pilots over 40 are required to have 2 medical exams every year. This results in the doubling of the medical ‘fee.’
Furthermore, pilots who have withheld their medical fee from Transport Canada have had their income tax garnisheed to recover this fee. This ‘fee’ is therefore a tax on pilots; this tax rate doubles based solely upon the pilot’s age.
Transport Canada’s record-keeping is so abysmal that many pilots who have already paid are being harassed by a collection agency, seriously threatening the credit ratings of those targeted.
To single out a specific group to be taxed, and to further tax this group based upon the sole criterion of age goes contrary to the Canadian Charter of Right and Freedoms:
15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.
I am asking you to abolish this unfair and prejudicial pilot tax. In addition, as this tax was obtained from the pilot population in a fraudulent and prejudicial manner, I am asking you to return the 'medical fee' to every person who has been coerced into paying.
Sincerely,
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
Sorry if this has been discussed before:
I talked to Collectcorp in Toronto. They said that my credit rating was not affected by this letter and that it was Transport Canada's mistake to ask Collectcorp to send out those letters. The woman on the phone said Collectcorp is only trying to collect on behalf of TC as TC is backlogged.
If someone can post e-mail addresses I'll forward my complaint.
I talked to Collectcorp in Toronto. They said that my credit rating was not affected by this letter and that it was Transport Canada's mistake to ask Collectcorp to send out those letters. The woman on the phone said Collectcorp is only trying to collect on behalf of TC as TC is backlogged.
If someone can post e-mail addresses I'll forward my complaint.
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Here's a good list of people to send the e-mail to - add your local MP and mintc@tc.gc.ca and you're all set!Cod Father wrote:I strongly suggest people who have issues with this fee contact the Members of Parliament on the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure, and Communities and file your complaint. Thos MPs work for us, not the other way around:
http://cmte.parl.gc.ca/cmte/CommitteeLi ... &COM=10462
Merv Tweed - Tweed.M@parl.gc.ca
Don Bell - Bell.D@parl.gc.ca
Mario Laframboise - Laframboise.M@parl.gc.ca
Mauril Belanger - Belanger.M@parl.gc.ca
Ed Fast - Fast.E@parl.gc.ca
Peter Julian - Julian.P@parl.gc.ca
Joseph Volpe - Volpe.J@parl.gc.ca
Paul Zed - Zed.P@parl.gc.ca
Robert Carrier - Carrier.R@parl.gc.ca
Brian Jean - Jean.B@parl.gc.ca
Brian Storseth - Storseth.B@parl.gc.ca
Jeff Watson - Watson.J@parl.gc.ca
Picking and Choosing Battles...
Regarding the recent TC/Collections action and subsequent call-to-arms on the forum, I have this to say. As I recently posted, I too received the letter, and have been considering options for addressing it. There have been some very interesting insights and opinions posted here, and I agree that something should be done.
Having said that, there is a time and a place for everything, and for those of you following the Quest for Justice and related threads, assertive action on those important issues has been taken by precious few of the wide readership and affected audience across this country.
Bill C-6, if passed in it's present form, and without addressing critical problems within both industry and government, will have severe negative consequences on the industry, and by default, every professional working within it.
There is precious time left before the Standing Committee is wrapped up and Parliament adjourned, plus as I recently pointed out in Quest for Justice, there is intense pressure from upper levels of TC management to get this legislation passed ASAP. Bombarding the Standing Committee and associated MPs with ad hoc emails at this time, with no organized game plan could possibly undermine any success we have had in drawing their attention to the growing industry unrest over the state of the industry and corruption of the government system.
I might respectfully suggest that perhaps there is a more organized and effective way to address the issue en masse, that will achieve results and not distract any attention we may have drawn to these other critical and timely issues. This action need not be delayed, rather carefully considered and methodically implemented.
While it would take some serious effort, one possible solution would be to use one of the letters suggested, along with some statistics from here:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/gener ... ats006.htm as the opener for a petition. COPA, HAC, ATAC and the various airline pilot unions could be of assistance in reaching the numbers.
If we could get the bulk of the pilot population across the country to sign this petition, and deliver it to all level of government, plus all members here: http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/about ... mpscur.asp and any other interested parties, we might have some chance at success.
To give you an idea of the possible strength in numbers we could have, if this was handled in an organized way:
Licenses in force:
AEROPLANE:
Private Pilots: 27743
Commercial Pilots: 8070
Airline Transport Pilots: 11315
HELICOPTER:
Private Pilots: 516
Commercial Pilots: 2924
Airline Transport Pilots: 848
Medicals in force with
no accompanying
license or permit: 11359
Total affected: 62,775
Think about it. Wouldn't an organized approach involving these kinds of numbers have a far greater effect than maybe 50 members on AvCanada spattering a few nuisance emails that likely won't get read?
Just my two cents.
Regards,
Snoopy
Having said that, there is a time and a place for everything, and for those of you following the Quest for Justice and related threads, assertive action on those important issues has been taken by precious few of the wide readership and affected audience across this country.
Bill C-6, if passed in it's present form, and without addressing critical problems within both industry and government, will have severe negative consequences on the industry, and by default, every professional working within it.
There is precious time left before the Standing Committee is wrapped up and Parliament adjourned, plus as I recently pointed out in Quest for Justice, there is intense pressure from upper levels of TC management to get this legislation passed ASAP. Bombarding the Standing Committee and associated MPs with ad hoc emails at this time, with no organized game plan could possibly undermine any success we have had in drawing their attention to the growing industry unrest over the state of the industry and corruption of the government system.
I might respectfully suggest that perhaps there is a more organized and effective way to address the issue en masse, that will achieve results and not distract any attention we may have drawn to these other critical and timely issues. This action need not be delayed, rather carefully considered and methodically implemented.
While it would take some serious effort, one possible solution would be to use one of the letters suggested, along with some statistics from here:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/gener ... ats006.htm as the opener for a petition. COPA, HAC, ATAC and the various airline pilot unions could be of assistance in reaching the numbers.
If we could get the bulk of the pilot population across the country to sign this petition, and deliver it to all level of government, plus all members here: http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/about ... mpscur.asp and any other interested parties, we might have some chance at success.
To give you an idea of the possible strength in numbers we could have, if this was handled in an organized way:
Licenses in force:
AEROPLANE:
Private Pilots: 27743
Commercial Pilots: 8070
Airline Transport Pilots: 11315
HELICOPTER:
Private Pilots: 516
Commercial Pilots: 2924
Airline Transport Pilots: 848
Medicals in force with
no accompanying
license or permit: 11359
Total affected: 62,775
Think about it. Wouldn't an organized approach involving these kinds of numbers have a far greater effect than maybe 50 members on AvCanada spattering a few nuisance emails that likely won't get read?
Just my two cents.
Regards,
Snoopy
“Never interrupt someone doing something you said couldn’t be done.” Amelia Earhart
Re: Picking and Choosing Battles...
You may also want to ask these (and other) organizations why they have not appeared to oppose the fees before now... That would be interesting reading as well.snoopy wrote:COPA, HAC, ATAC and the various airline pilot unions could be of assistance in reaching the numbers.
Earlier post...1996: The members of the Regulatory Services Fees Technical Committee of CARAC include Aero Club of Canada, Aerospace Industries Association of Canada, Air Canada, Aircraft Maintenance Engineers Association (Atlantic) Inc., Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association - Canada, Air Transport Association of Canada, Association québécoise des transporteurs aériens inc., Aviation Québec, British Columbia Aviation Council, Calgary Flying Club, Canada 3000 Airlines - Pilots Association, Canadian Airlines International, Canadian Air Line Pilots Association, Canadian Association of Aviation Colleges, Canadian Business Aircraft Association, Canadian Helicopters Ltd., Canadian Owners and Pilots Association, Canadian Transportation Agency, Central AME Association, Diamond Aircraft Industries, Experimental Aircraft Association - Canadian Council, Fantasy Sky Promotions, Helicopter Association of Canada, Home Aviation, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, International Council of Air Shows, Light Aircraft Manufacturers Association of Canada, Northern Air Transport Association, Phoenix Aviation Resources, Pratt and Whitney Canada Inc., Shuswap Air, Soaring Association of Canada, Ultralight Pilots Association of Canada, and Union of Canadian Transport Employees.
...
2000: Industry representatives present during the Technical Committee meeting included participants from the Canadian Owners and Pilots Association (COPA), from the Airline Pilots Association (ALPA) and from the Air Transport Association of Canada (ATAC). The members of the Technical Committee indicated their support for the proposal to fast-track the publication of amendment to CAR 104.01, Schedule IV, item 20 which will address the simplified fee structure. These members have also agreed to participate in communicating the details of the fee simplification and to prepare information articles for publication in trade magazines and newsletters.
