Bomb kills 6 Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan

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Hedley
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Post by Hedley »

DashAte you are by far the dumbest POS to write on this boards
He's certainly a front-.. The depressing thing is how many Canadians think like him.

What has this country become? In WWI and WWII (which I'm sure that Swede and Jack Layton consider more evidence of Bush conspiracy) we kicked ass.

But somewhere along the way, an incredible percentage of Canadians have become whining, useless, pussies. Perhaps it had something to do with the "Trudeau Years" (shudder), Paul Hellyer, etc.

Maybe I'm just getting old. I notice that about old people - they don't belong any more. It's as if they took a trip in a time machine into the future, they don't like what's become of their home, but there's no way of getting back to where they belong.
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LH
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Post by LH »

Whether we should be in Afghanistan or not is a "moot" point because it was NATO inspired and UN approved. So what we "want" to do is secondary. We are "honouring" an agreement that Canada signed onto many years ago and the Canadian political Party in power at that time represented Canada......AND Canadians. Please take note Jack Layton et al that I expect Canada to honour her signed obligations.

Having stated the above, it would be nice if some other members of NATO would remember that.

As it stands right now, there are over 70 caveats that have been set by other NATO members onsite before they will particpate in any confrontation with the Taliban. That makes co-ordinating any exercise against insurgents a complete mightmare. Germany, France and Spain will not participate in ANY exercise that involves confronting insurgents. Germany refuses to carry other NATO members in their helicopters to other states' prohibition of the use of chemical riot control agents like tear gas. Other problems include the reluctance of certain NATO countries to contribute troops and a/c to deployments in the first place.The Netherlands debated for months before committing about 1000 troops and Denmark and Sweden took weeks to agree to far more modest personnel contributions. This disconnect between NATO's high command and individual member states has been evident since 2003, when NATO first took over ISAF in Afghanistan.

Canadian troops took Vimy Ridge in WW1 after the British couldn't do it for 18 months and we lost approximately 11,000 personnel in 3 days. The Canadians therafter earned the name "Shock Troops". In WW2 Canadian troops were used again by the British in the poorly-planned Dieppe raid and Canada lost 900 troops in that fiasco. Now Canada is in Afghanistan and being "used" again because some of their allies (including Britain at one point) have "caveats" about fighting even though they are onsite. Enough is enough.......contribute or go home.........and Canada will remember that the next time you need help.......AGAIN........and maybe we'll think about it because we value our sons' and daughters' lives just as much as the rest of you do.
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Post by brownbear »

With the millions upon millions of poor wretched people over in Pakistan and Afghanistan that think the west has caused them to be poor and it stifling them......they will fight forever. There is no end to this conflict.

This is not ww2 were the enemy had uniforms and needed to be fed by supply trucks.


I fully respect our soldiers and our military. But this is a war that cannot be won. The insurgents get born each day.


If Canada got the choice to vote on bringing them home, we would have our soldiers back. And If I had the choice they would be up in our Arctic protecting our borders....... from Denmark.
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Post by Duster »

Hedly wrote:
What has this country become? In WWI and WWII (which I'm sure that Swede and Jack Layton consider more evidence of Bush conspiracy) we kicked ass.

But somewhere along the way, an incredible percentage of Canadians have become whining, useless, pussies. Perhaps it had something to do with the "Trudeau Years" (shudder), Paul Hellyer, etc.
Hedley, you write a lot of stuff I don't agree with, but you hit the nail on the head on this one. I am so sick of the whiny, guilt-assuaging anti afghan involvement protests, from baby liberals who love to enjoy the benefits of life in this country - but can't handle the cost of making the tough decisions required to protect it. Gutless babies all.
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Driving Rain
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Post by Driving Rain »

http://www.cdfai.org/PDF/Canada%20in%20 ... orking.pdf

This report by the Canadian Defence and Foreign Affairs Institute is about 25 pages long. It's worth reading by anyone who cares about our brave forces there.
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bob sacamano
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Post by bob sacamano »

It's funny how you are all about sending our boys to go fight so they can speard democracy, yet when someone one here has a different opinion, you jump all over him/her and call them names.

What a bunch of bafoons.

Those hardcores on here, why not enlist and go to afghanistan?
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Post by oldenoughtoknowbetter »

I've held off today as perhaps I take this whole issue a little too close to heart, but then again I don't think that should be possible for anyone.

Of all days as I watched the entire service from France, I feel it is a day that should bring us all closer together. Each IS entitled to his or her opinion however it is paramount that our troops feel AND hear that the nation as a whole, is 100% behind their efforts - it's the least we can do.
If some want to bring them home, by all means exercise your vote next time round......now is not the time to question.

On the notion that our troops are in a futile war, I offer this:
- 90 years ago the Brits and the French couldn't get it done - OUR TROOPS DID!
- With one Son back from tour in both Bosnia and Afghanistan I have many pictures as a reminder of just how much good is being done by Canadians, let alone the stories and pride each of our loved ones brings back of "the good they did". Please don't judge from afar if you haven't "walked the walk".
- Our enemy is cowardly beyond humanity - let the bastards stand up and be counted and see the progress made.

I sign off with a quote that is quite fitting for our discussion - take from it what you will.....

“The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and it’s fighting done by fools.”
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Post by Driving Rain »

"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and it’s fighting done by fools.”

Your post made me think about this great guy.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... /20070404/

Paul Workman, CTV News South Asia Bureau Chief, CTV News

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan -- I'm sure it makes absolutely no difference to Lt.-Gen. Andrew Leslie whether Canada rents or buys a new fleet of tanks, just as long as the antiques his troops are now using get replaced. He calls them "big iron monsters," and the idea of a young tank crew roasting to death in 65-degree heat should be enough to shame any government.

So, on a day when no less than three cabinet ministers were visiting the troops in Afghanistan, the 49-year-old general offered the most persuasive argument yet for replacing Canada's old Leopard tanks with something new and air-conditioned.

I'm not going to lose soldiers, he said.

It's maybe something his grandfather would have said. Or both his grandfathers. Or perhaps his father. All of them were military men with distinguished careers in the Canadian army. In fact, "distinguished" doesn't nearly describe the pedigree of Lt.-Gen. Andrew Brooke Leslie, CMM, MSC, MSM, CD, (try pinning that on your chest) and today "Chief of the Land Staff." Or, in everyday words, head of the army.

One of his grandfathers was Gen. Andrew McNaughton, often described as the "father of the Canadian army," or better still, as "Canada's most prominent soldier of the 20th century." McNaughton was a gunner in the First World War, led Canadian forces into World War II, and later served as Minister of Defence.

His other grandfather was Brooke Claxton, who as an artillery officer during the First World War was awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal and also went on to serve as a Minister of Defence and later as Canada's first Minister of National Health and Welfare.

Leslie's father, Col. "Teddy" McNaughton, commanded the Royal Canadian Horse Artillery in Korea, where according to his biography, he legally changed his surname name to "Leslie," to comply with the terms of an inheritance. (There must be a good story there.)

Both grandfathers fought at Vimy Ridge, and that's where the third-generation McNaughton-Leslie will be when Canada marks the 90th anniversary of the battle, considered a defining moment in the country's history.

"After Remembrance Day, this is it," he says, "in terms of the importance to us as an army, in terms of the emotion it generates.

"Just about every regiment that's in the Canadian order of battle fought there, and had people who died."

He's a very eloquent, impressive soldier who, to be head of the army at 49, has climbed the ladder quickly. Driven by heritage? Duty?

Family honour? Probably all of that since the lineage includes a strong sense of Canadian nationalism and a worthy obligation to serve the country.

"I was a private for about a month," he says, before moving up the ranks in a dozen different places and positions. France, where he took French Army commando training; field tours in Germany and Cyprus; as a brigade commander in the former Yugoslavia, and now as head of the army. Along the way he picked up a couple of master's degrees and is working on his doctorate. Now that's driven.

"He's been a mover," says an officer in Afghanistan. "One of the chosen. The troops like him and people are very impressed with him.

"And he looks like a kid."

The general is based in Ottawa, but makes a couple of trips a year to Afghanistan. Usually he gets a bunch of soldiers together and listens to their complaints. And if you doubt his conviction, listen to this.

"Afghanistan is a 20-year venture. There are things worth fighting for. There are things worth dying for. There are things worth killing for," he says.

For the journalists who met him in Kandahar, he left a swath of good quotes, and showed remarkable patience with our often-simple questions. We're not used to that. One of my colleagues thanked him effusively for his time.

It's obvious he believes deeply in the Afghan mission and says it has changed the Canadian army, something I've heard others say.

"Afghanistan is changing the army's culture, because for the first time you've got people within the same organization working on the diplomatic front, working with the police and the Afghan National Army, doing their combat duty. So this is the most advanced stage of complex missions you could possibly imagine."

"And" -- now here's the punch line -- "our nation is remarkably good at it."

The pedigree shows.
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oldenoughtoknowbetter
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Post by oldenoughtoknowbetter »

Amen to that - Thanks......
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Post by Crazymax »

bob sacamano wrote:It's funny how you are all about sending our boys to go fight so they can speard democracy, yet when someone one here has a different opinion, you jump all over him/her and call them names.

What a bunch of bafoons.

Those hardcores on here, why not enlist and go to afghanistan?
I am in the military and I can't wait to get my wings (one day at the time....) and go over there help out the boys.

Max
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Post by taxiway_matthew »

bob sacamano wrote:It's funny how you are all about sending our boys to go fight so they can speard democracy, yet when someone one here has a different opinion, you jump all over him/her and call them names.

What a bunch of bafoons.

Those hardcores on here, why not enlist and go to afghanistan?
Theres a difference between constructed disagreement and being a buffoon. We are criticizing his rationale, with a little bit of emotion thrown in, because we're sick of it. Canadians are pussies these days, for the most part.

That being said, I am enlisting. Being on these boards must be proof enough to you how much I want to be a pilot, both civy and AF. But I think I just may drop that idea to become an infantry soldier and fight in Afghanistan. So sleep easy knowing your freedom and the quality of life you enjoy is due in large part by the men and women risking their lives every single waking second they are in Afghanistan. And I hope too to join those men and women. Soon.
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Post by Dash-Ate »

By the way if you want to know who really hates our freedom, and who we should be fighting. Look no further.
Busharper hate freedom, they use and abuse our troops and leave our borders undefended.

Professor who criticized Bush added to terrorist 'no-fly' list

Michael Roston
Raw Story
Monday April 9, 2007

A top Constitutional scholar from Princeton who gave a televised speech that slammed President George W. Bush's executive overreach recently learned that he had been added to the Transportation Security Administration's terrorist watch list. He shared his experience this weekend at the law blog Balkinization.

Walter F. Murphy, the McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence, Emeritus, at Princeton University, attempted to check his luggage at the curbside in Albuquerque before boarding a plane to Newark, New Jersey. Murphy was told he could not use the service.

"I was denied a boarding pass because I was on the Terrorist Watch list," he said.

When inquiring with a clerk why he was on the list, Murphy was asked if he had participated in any peace marches.

"We ban a lot of people from flying because of that," a clerk said.

Murphy then explained that he had not marched, but had "in September, 2006, given a lecture at Princeton, televised and put on the Web, highly critical of George Bush for his many violations of the Constitution."

The clerk responded, "That'll do it."

Murphy was allowed to board the plane, but was warned that his luggage would be "ransacked." On his return trip, his luggage was lost.

Murphy is a decorated Marine who served in the Korean War and was a reservist for 19 years. Mark Graber, who presented the blog post, adds that there were other reasons that Murphy was an unlikely terror suspect.

"While he holds some opinions, most notably on welfare, similar to opinions held on the political left, he is a sharp critic of ROE V. WADE, and supported the Alito nomination," he wrote.

The blog post on Murphy's experience can be accessed at this link.
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Hedley
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Post by Hedley »

why not enlist and go to afghanistan?
Gimme a CF-188 to fly over there and I'm in. Seriously. Where do overage fighter pilots sign up?

My paternal grandfather flew in WWI. I have his logbook in the top shelf above my desk. See "Canadian Airmen and the First World War - The Official History of the Royal Canadian Air Force Volume 1", also on my bookshelf.

My maternal grandfather, at the age of 15, volunteered and was in the trenches in WWI. Of the 32 young men who volunteered in his township, he was one of only 2 who came home. Think about that for a second - 30 of 32 men died.
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The Other Kind
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Post by The Other Kind »

Dash-Ate,

What does your last post have to do with Harper?

We could have a good debate going here if you would deal with facts and drop the partisan bulls%&t.

I have no problem with you wanting our troops brought home. It just appears that you are using them to slam our current government. I get the impression that if Harper wanted them brought home, you would want them to stay - using them as pawns to spew partisan crap. Not cool.

I suspect that's why a lot of 'AvCanadians' have been calling you names.
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Post by swede »

George Bush says the U.S. has to be in Iraq or the battle will be brought to the U.S. As with everything that comes out of his mouth, that statement is complete horseshit. As for Canada's involvement, Chretien committed to Afghanistan because Iraq was not acceptable politically. Bush is Harpers hero, he will do what he is told by whomever pulls Bush's strings. These wars, like Vietnam, will accomplish nothing towards the establishment of democracy in the muslim world or anywhere else. They will however, vastly enrich corporate coffers of all stripes, or at least that is the goal in an esoteric sense. All other reasons as spouted by the corporate owned media are window dressing, it is unfortunate that the people who understand that are in the minority.
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Post by mcrit »

We'll take you up til age 46 Hed.
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Post by The Other Kind »

So many false and misleading statements I don't know where to begin.
George Bush says the U.S. has to be in Iraq or the battle will be brought to the U.S. As with everything that comes out of his mouth, that statement is complete horseshit. As for Canada's involvement, Chretien committed to Afghanistan because Iraq was not acceptable politically.
I don't think some people are able to differentiate between Iraq and Afghanistan. WE ARE NOT IN IRAQ. As for Canada's involvement in Afghanistan, we are there as a member of NATO and that is why Chretien sent our troops. Saying that he just wanted a war is WAY off base.
Bush is Harpers hero, he will do what he is told by whomever pulls Bush's strings.
Political fear-mongering and complete nonsense.
They will however, vastly enrich corporate coffers of all stripes, or at least that is the goal in an esoteric sense.
Your comments may have some merit on the Iraqi war, but not the war in Afghanistan. Again it shows your inability to differentiate between the two.
it is unfortunate that the people who understand that are in the minority.
That's pretty arrogant coming from someone who doesn't seem to understand which war Canada is involved in. :wink:
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Post by grimey »

Dash-Ate wrote:By the way if you want to know who really hates our freedom, and who we should be fighting. Look no further.
Busharper hate freedom, they use and abuse our troops and leave our borders undefended.
How is pumping 15 billion into our military leaving our borders undefended? Isolationism doesn't work, this has been demonstrated in the real world repeatedly.
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Post by LH »

Swede -------- Canada is the 5th biggest arms producer in the world. We don't need any war to increase our profit or position in that regard. We're doing just fine without any Canadian Service person taking one step off of Canadian territory. So the conflict in Afghanistan could stop within the next hour and all the troops couold be home by the end of the week..........and we'd still go right on making those vast riches you talk about by supplying others who are in conflict.

So forget "the bleeding heart" Swede about our rotten corporate elite needing Afghanistan to make money for themselves. Sorry, but "that doen't fly" if you look and find out who all Canada makes arms and munitions for in this world. They ain't all members of the Free World either.
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Post by taxiway_matthew »

Anyone who opposes the war in Afghanistan truely is ignorant to history. We could have stayed out of WWII, Hitler didn't affect us. Europe was miles away
Afghanistan is miles away too, but what I find funny is how much more directly terrorist regimes such as the Taliban affect us personally (ie. 911) than Hitler did back in the days. And if someone says well the Taliban will never grow and be a real threat to our personal freedom and rights, well there sir is you lack of historical knowledge. Hitler rose to power in a VERY short amount of time, in a country that was, by all means, stable and democratic. So if a "normal" country such as the Weimar Republic go sour that quickly, imagine how south Afghanistan could go, especially if we pull out now.

I want to leave y'all with this poem I found. Its touching to say the least.

The Soldier stood and faced God
Which must always come to pass
He hoped his shoes were shining
Just as bright as his brass.

"Step forward you Soldier,
How shall I deal with you?
Have you always turned the other cheek?
To My Church have you been true?"

The Solider squared his shoulders and said
"No, Lord, I guess I ain't
Because those of us who carry guns
Can't always be a saint.

I've had to work on Sundays
And at times my talk was tough,
And sometimes I've been violent,
Because the world is awfully rough.

But, I never took a penny
That wasn't mine to keep.
Though I worked a lot of overtime
When the bills got just to steep,

And I never passed a cry for help
Though at times I shook with fear,
And sometimes, God forgive me,
I've wept unmanly tears.

I know I don't deserve a place
Among the people here.
They never wanted me around
Except to calm their fears.

If you've a place for me here,
Lord, It needn't be so grand,
I never expected or had too much,
But if you don't, I'll understand."

There was silence all around the throne
Where the saints had often trod
As the Soldier waited quietly,
For the judgement of his God.

"Step forward now, you Soldier,
You've borne your burden well.
Walk peacefully on Heaven's streets,
You've done your time in Hell."

...Author Unknown


Shit, all this ranting makes me want to drop the air force and become a soldier.
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Post by Nark »

bob sacamano wrote:...Those hardcores on here, why not enlist and go to afghanistan?
Looks like I'm not the only one huh?

However I'd love to join my 200 other Marine brothers participating in OEF, I'm needed where I currently am.

What are you doing?
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Post by bob sacamano »

cpl_atc wrote:
bob sacamano wrote:It's funny how you are all about sending our boys to go fight so they can speard democracy, yet when someone one here has a different opinion, you jump all over him/her and call them names.
I think you're confusing democracy and freedom of speech.

It is not undemocratic to criticize someone else's point of view.
Name calling someone on a forum is not criticising.

And no, I'm not confusing democracy and freedom of speech.
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Post by bob sacamano »

Nark wrote:
bob sacamano wrote:...Those hardcores on here, why not enlist and go to afghanistan?
Looks like I'm not the only one huh?

However I'd love to join my 200 other Marine brothers participating in OEF, I'm needed where I currently am.

What are you doing?
Can't be too tough if you can log on here on a daily basis.

As for me, right now I'm on the can.
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Post by bob sacamano »

taxiway_matthew wrote:
bob sacamano wrote:It's funny how you are all about sending our boys to go fight so they can speard democracy, yet when someone one here has a different opinion, you jump all over him/her and call them names.

What a bunch of bafoons.

Those hardcores on here, why not enlist and go to afghanistan?
Theres a difference between constructed disagreement and being a buffoon. We are criticizing his rationale, with a little bit of emotion thrown in, because we're sick of it. Canadians are pussies these days, for the most part.

That being said, I am enlisting. Being on these boards must be proof enough to you how much I want to be a pilot, both civy and AF. But I think I just may drop that idea to become an infantry soldier and fight in Afghanistan. So sleep easy knowing your freedom and the quality of life you enjoy is due in large part by the men and women risking their lives every single waking second they are in Afghanistan. And I hope too to join those men and women. Soon.
Every man and woman has a choice and if that's yours, then good for you.

I know that whatever is happening in afghanistan has nothing to do with my freedom here. But hey, that's just me.

So by you going there, don't feel like I owe you anything, and don't think that you're helping me sleep any better. It's the drugs that are helping me sleep better.
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Post by grimey »

bob sacamano wrote: you jump all over him/her and call them names.

What a bunch of bafoons.
Awesome. :roll:
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