skyward medevac

confuzed · Post by **confuzed** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:42 am

I'm a little confused here. Every time I hear Skyward up flying their medevacs, they always use the term medevac (I.e. skyward 911 medevac). I thought you weren't supposed to use that term unless it's a code 4?? Code 3 advanced does not warrant the usage of medevac status from what i've been told. There's no way that there's that many code 4's in a night around ontario, as every flight they do is under the medevac status. Was the person that told me about this wrong, or are they just abusing the medevac status to gain operational advantages?? If anyone could clear this up, it would be greatly appreciated.

bandaid · Post by **bandaid** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:53 am

I'm not sure what your codes are for medevac but as a Paramedic for too many years I think I can safely say that if their is going to be a medevac that requires priority clearance it will most often happen in the middle of the night. MVA's, bar fights, spousal abuse, shootings, stabbing.... You get the idea. For some reason the worst ones always seem to happen in the wee hours. Not trying to defend them just saying this may be the reason.
And as a side note, as a Paramedic I have a profound respect for you guys who fly medevacs. Always helpful and seemingly genuinely concerned for the welfare of our patients. You don't get the thanks you deserve.

confuzed · Post by **confuzed** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:01 pm

thanks for the reply bandaid. Codes are from 1-4, 4 being the worst. Advanced calls obviously need and ACP(f) medic on board. Having flown tonnes of night medevacs a good majority of them have been code 3 advanced. We don't use the term medevac though, unless it's a code 4 and the patient is really not in good shape (has life threatening issues). The number of times i've done a code 4 requiring the medevac status is maybe 10-15 in almost a year. Every time that I hear skyward flying though day or night (up to 2 or 3 flights a night) they're always under the medevac status. That's why I was wondering about the usage of it. If you're only supposed to use it on code 4's then maybe they're abusing it, i'm not sure. From what i've been told code 3 advanced does not warrant the use of medevac status. I'm hoping too that a skyward guy/gal can explain their usage of it as well. Thanks

1st timer · Post by **1st timer** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:09 pm

Call them and ask them yourself. Things are different in MB than ON it just maybe that is they way they do things. Ask for thier Medivak manager or thier CP (Greg McMaster) #204 778 7088 or 1 888 SKYWARD.
Good luck and post thier responce as I would be interested in what they say.

bandaid · Post by **bandaid** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:17 pm

Your welcome, and I ment what I said.
First timer took the words out of my mouth. I always find the direct approach not only works better but you get the answer from the horses mouth rather than the rumour mill. Not always the answer you want to hear, but normally the answer that is correct. No harm in being direct.

turbo-prop · Post by **turbo-prop** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:51 pm

Actually they do abuse the term medevac. I use to fly in Manitoba and they always use medevac even when they are just positioning back to base.

bandaid · Post by **bandaid** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 6:34 pm

I used to date a girl named Paula, she always smelt really nice. Does she still? Maybe. I would have to ask someone who knows her now.
Ask your question from someone who can answer it as to todays practices not what used to be.

gongshow · Post by **gongshow** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 6:55 pm

Part of the reason that they always file as a medevac is that medevac flights do not have to pay any Nav Canada fees

Northern Flyer · Post by **Northern Flyer** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:06 pm

I fly medivac in MB. FSS asks me every time I file if this is a medivac. They have the aircraft on a master file and it is a dedicated medivac. If I have a patient on board than I will say yes, but I will tell them that we do not require priority handling, unless we do. I believe that in MB only Life Flight does code 4, it requires a docter on board, and usually the patient is being intubated. Once in a Blue Moon our company will do a code 4, maby twice a year.
What happens when you cry wolf?

As far as I know Medivacs do pay navcanada fee's, they just charge it back to the agency that pays the bill.

Ben Dover · Post by **Ben Dover** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:33 pm

Confuzed, As it says in the AIP under COM 5.8.1 the term Medevac is used when responding to a medical emergency. This is aviation not MEDICINE nowhere in the AIP does it talk about the code that the call is and really who cares?

We tend use this term to help expidite departures and arrivals from everywhere. If you were a woman on her back about to give birth, would you give a rats ass that the trip was only a code 2 and be fifth for the approach or be next and get that mom and baby to hospital.

I can give you many reasons why we use it but apparently your crews are in the know when/where to use the term.

As Bandaid said it's all about Patient care that's all, so keep on with your Code 4 attitude and we'll both be alright.

You should pay more attention to the front of the bus rather than the back.

enough said,

BD

Right Seat Captain · Post by **Right Seat Captain** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:44 pm

Ben Dover wrote:If you were a woman on her back about to give birth, would you give a rats ass that the trip was only a code 2 and be fifth for the approach or be next and get that mom and baby to hospital.

I don't know, but last time I checked, a woman on her back about give birth usually doesn't arganize a medivac flight, file a flight plan, and often don't fly the aircraft.

It is my impression that not just anybody can call themselves medivac, and the AIP tends to not always have complete information, since it doesn't tailor to very specific situations. That is why we have the CARs.

Ben Dover · Post by **Ben Dover** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:35 pm

You know RSC you are a little out of your league. You kind remind me of Oprah. You know a lot about NOTHING. And yes I do watch her from time to time.

What lesson plans you doing tomorrow ? Could you help me with the Take off and landings i'm not so good at those ?

Thanks,

BD

Northern Flyer · Post by **Northern Flyer** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:44 pm

Is there alot of delays when departing or arriving in Cross Lake?

Ben Dover · Post by **Ben Dover** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:53 pm

I guess if you want to come up arguments to the post you can always find something stupid to say.

What is your point and its relevance to this conversation?

Thanks for the input though,

BD

Right Seat Captain · Post by **Right Seat Captain** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:53 pm

Bendover,

Perhaps you'd like to formulate your ideas better in your future posts, so they actually make sense, rather than having nonsense that even non-pilots can tell is rubbish. Of course, you know very little about what 'league' I am in. But you sir, are in a league of your own, alone.

Besides, as you pointed out, this subject goes much beyong pilots, but to patients as well. Seeing how anyone in this country can become a patient, this 'league' that you speak of includes everyone.

Northern Flyer · Post by **Northern Flyer** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:59 pm

Point is, why would you call your-self a MV when returning to base? No patient on board.

jimmyjazz · Post by **jimmyjazz** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 9:09 pm

Wow Ben you are one hostile son of a b*****
now deeeep calming breathes it wil be ok.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:08 pm

Hey Banaid...Paula still smells great!!
Ben Dover.....how's your friend, Mike Hunt??

bandaid · Post by **bandaid** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:15 pm

Thanks Doc,
I'm not sure what the case is in Northern Manitoba, perhaps the reason they return mv is because the Northern community requires that they return asap as part of the contract. I don't know that is the reason, but so far all I have seen here is speculation. Someone asking the question needs to grow a set and go to the source and ask them rather than drag this or any other companies name through the mud. I can tell you by experience that the only time you realise the true value of a medevac aircraft is the one time that you need it really bad and it isn't available.

confuzed · Post by **confuzed** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:32 pm

Bendover,

Actually, a woman about to give birth is a priority medevcac depending on the situation. What i'm getting at is this. Skyward taking off of or coming into sioux lookout, winnipeg, thunder bay, wherever with a patient that is primary care on board calling themselves medevac. Well guess what, we have an advanced care patient that is more serious then them, however we get put in a hold or delayed because of their medevac status. From what I know, it is up to the medics or MATC to decide whether or not the patient is serious enough to go medevac status. We will not declare medevac status unless that individual is having serious life threatening issues, however the aforementioned will deem themselves medevac for someone that might only be a minor issue. It seems to me that you're getting very defensive about this though, i'm just pointing something out. If that were you on the stretcher having some serious problems and I said sorry I've gotta hold for about 10 minutes because someone with a broken finger is coming in on a "medevac" airplane, you'd be pretty upset. Come on now, get realistic here.

Confuzed, As it says in the AIP under COM 5.8.1 the term Medevac is used when responding to a medical emergency. This is aviation not MEDICINE nowhere in the AIP does it talk about the code that the call is and really who cares?

We tend use this term to help expidite departures and arrivals from everywhere. If you were a woman on her back about to give birth, would you give a rats ass that the trip was only a code 2 and be fifth for the approach or be next and get that mom and baby to hospital.

I can give you many reasons why we use it but apparently your crews are in the know when/where to use the term.

As Bandaid said it's all about Patient care that's all, so keep on with your Code 4 attitude and we'll both be alright.

You should pay more attention to the front of the bus rather than the back.

enough said,

BD

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:54 pm

Point is, why would you call your-self a MV when returning to base? No patient on board.

For the record, we don't do this practice, however there are justifications I can think of, not limited to:

-spending tax dollars on air time comes out of all of our pockets, we should help that plane re-position as efficiently as possible.

-even the most stable patients can become critical on a moment's notice, and I know of a few instances where stable patients have gone critical in a hurry and died!

-a trip for a 421 say YTH-ZTM/YOH/YIV... to YWG can easily push even the 17 hour split duty day to the max. If the crew duties in YWG then the aircraft is not staffed for the 9 hours that they are sleeping in a hotel on our tax dime...

-let's say your mom/pop/family member/friend needs a medevac for whatever reason and the a/c is holding over the beacon while other a/c shoot full procedure approaches. The crew has to land, fuel, file, ... I bet your tone would change.

cj

jenny talia · Post by **jenny talia** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:43 am

just my $0.02...
I have been flying medevacs for over 2 years (not for skyward... in fact not even in mb

) and we always go on medivac priority with a patient on board regardless of why they are on board. This is due to the fact that if they need to be medivaced it is considered more urgent than the guy/girl flying the freight or passengers in general. If there is another medivac flight out there..... very unusual but anything can happen on a full moon and even more unusual to have the same estimates (this has not happened in my 1500+ hrs flying medevacs), we are more than willing to accomodate

As for repositioning, If we have another job waiting we will use the priority status to get back asap.
So are skyward really doing any harm?
my 2p

Northern Flyer · Post by **Northern Flyer** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:29 am

In Northern MB, other than YTH, there are no delayes. Even in YWG you might get vectored an extra few miles, but thats it. I've been flying here for about five years, and have actually had to hold twice, in five years!!

There are no contracts with communitys, most have preferances on who they call first, but with central dispatching on the horizon even that will change. But, don't give me that crap about waisting tax dollars, read a paper, watch the news, a few extra pounds of jet fuel is phuk all. At least your not putting every one else off schedule.

Well that said go ahead and call your self Medivac all the time, I don't give a shit, I guess you deserve to be a bigshot. I wouldn't want to live in Cross Lake. Hows the woman situation?

Disco Stu · Post by **Disco Stu** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:01 am

I fly medevacs in MB, not for Skyward. Anytime we have a patient on board we file as Medevac. Even for hospital transfers.

There is a difference between medevac and priority medevac. It ATC asks us if we are priority, we tell them no.

But we do not file as medevac when positioning back to base. If we need to be dispatched on another call we have sat phones and FSS relays messages from dispatch.

On a slightly related note, how busy is Skyward in Ontario? Have the taken business from the other companies like Thunder?

Ranger · Post by **Ranger** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:25 am

I do fly medevac for Skyward and in 2 years we have never called ourselves medevac for a repositioning or return flight. We will when responding to a call and need to get out of Thompson as it will let other aircraft know we need to get out asap and the other companies will let us out first or will extend a downwind to let us depart. Just as we will for a perimeter medevac. This is probably carried over into Ontario out of habbit where the other companies apparently only go medevac for a code 4. I don't believe a person has to be on death's door to have things sped up for them. We don't abuse this and ask for priority into Winnipeg unless it is warranted and that is our nurses call.

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