ATTENTION ALL RAMPIES.....RE: PEACE AIR

borntofly · Post by **borntofly** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:26 am

I heard through the grape vine that a lot of rampies have left or are going to leave because the PC12s are gone. THEN I heard that they(management) is hiring rampies and telling them about some kind of progression to the flight line still (MAJOR BS).

Contrail isn't going to allow 250 hour pilots on the Jetstream especially after the incident in Fort St.John.

So here is my advice to all the rampies out there.....
- ASK about the "progression" to the flight line

- If they say "we are excited, big things are happening" they have been excited for the last 5 years.

Out of 20 somewhat rampies 11 or more have quite already. So to all the rampies out there do your homework before you move to Peace River or where ever they place you.

LAST thing......To management there, you are just cheap labour to them and they don't give 2 s%^ts about you!

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:36 am

heropsychodreamer · Post by **heropsychodreamer** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:38 am

If they say "we are excited, big things are happening" they have been excited for the last 5 years

Actually, it's 8 years

borntofly · Post by **borntofly** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:40 am

They had 8 Jetstream F/Os that started with 250 hours last year! Even if it is insurance....the rampies are told that its contrail that won't budge.nSomeone isn't coming clean here...hmmmm

happily.retired · Post by **happily.retired** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:12 am

So by your math, if one is patient enough to work the ramp for 2ish years (20 rampies, 8 move to F/O each year or even less time right now since all the senior rampies have just stormed out) you can get into a Jetstream. You're peeved by this? Show me an instructor, bush pilot, or floater who manages it get into a Jetstream in two years without buying a PPC.

That's just the way aviation works. If you want a company to invest thousands of dollars in your training you had better be willing to give them something in return (ie, lousy labour) and prove that you are worth it.

Your other options are to buy a PPC or pay a bond, and I think we all know what the general opinion is of these options by now.

Howitzer · Post by **Howitzer** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:28 am

I don't think many people understand the insurance issue in Canada. For the most part, what I see on this site is wrong in regards to it. There are only a few companies in Canada that actually have "named" policies. A "named" policy is where your actual details are kept in the insurance file, your name, your birth date, your experience. Most other companies do not have a named clause. These insurance companies have left it up to the Aviation company to decide who's qualified to fly their aircraft. Understandably, the minimum requirement is what Transport Canada sets out, but the rest is up to them.

Let me elaborate on the 'no name' clause to show you how experience indirectly affects the rates. It''s like car insurance, the more tickets/accidents you get, the higher the rate. Lets use the 50 hours on floats, or whatever it may be, example. In a 'no name' clause, the insurance company does not care how many hours you have on floats, as long as you have the endorsement. From the operators view, a person with 7 hours on floats is more likely to bang up an airplane than someone with 50 hours. Once that airplane has a claim made on it, next years rates may be higher, so the operator is protecting themselves by hiring the more experienced, and the less likely to damage and airplane.

Hope this helps.

drifter · Post by **drifter** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:02 pm

Lots of insurance companies with a "No Name Clause" will have a "Blanket Approval" associated with it. That means they don't care about your details as long as you have certain time. If you don't meet that blanket clearance, then they want your details and then it's case by case.

rampking · Post by **rampking** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:29 pm

Man pilots are there own worst enemy.......I swear I have never met so many retarded people in all my life that are willing to be poor and work like a fucking guy who has no education. If you are one of these people you should be ashamed of yourselves you are ruining this industry....actually nevermind it's already ruined. The guy who drives a bus next door to me makes more then me. An my plane seats more then his bus and goes 10 X speed.

King

Dust Devil · Post by **Dust Devil** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:31 pm

drifter wrote:Lots of insurance companies with a "No Name Clause" will have a "Blanket Approval" associated with it. That means they don't care about your details as long as you have certain time. If you don't meet that blanket clearance, then they want your details and then it's case by case.

That's exactly how it works in our case

FlightFX · Post by **FlightFX** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:44 pm

Rampking, that is what you are, right? 1st of all, you are full of shit, second, you are in this industry because you love to fly, yes no, not to get rich! Which of course we all want to be, but if that is your passion than go be a doctor or a fuckin UFC fighter!
So STOP your bitchin and find another career! Sucsess is not based on your bankbook but more or less the accomplishments you have made!!
Good luck getting a right seat !

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:09 pm

rampking · Post by **rampking** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:43 pm

FlightFX, I already have my right seat have had it for quite some time now, obviously alot longer then you or you wouldn't be talking that way. Never once did I say I never loved what I do, but I bet Engineers,Dr's,Transports Truck Drivers, Heavy Equipment Operators,Lawyers love what they do as well. You don't see them making peanuts do ya! It's little fucks like you who go around with your passion to work for free and take it up the ass doing so that have this industry turned into a joke. You know it's bad when a Metro Bus Driver or a subway driver makes more then a guy sitting right seat of a 767 in his first year. Don't get me started on how much more Heavy Equipment operators are getting paid, I guarantee there equipment ain't as heavy as most of ours, and it certainly ain't flying around .84 Mach. Anyways you will understand one of these days when you move out of mummies house and actually have to pay the bills. Best of luck to ya!!!

King

borntofly · Post by **borntofly** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:00 am

The reason I posted this topic is because they have been trying to hire rampies and dangling a carrot in front of them with hopes of touching a plane.

Peace isn't taking anymore 250 hour pilots as F/Os from the ramp anymore and this is from a very legit source.

I just don't want to see a fellow pilot get screwed over there by having to move to Peace River, Calgary, or Edmonton and be very disapointed.

They'll do anything to get a pilot to work for $1500/month because they are cheap labour.

flyer · Post by **flyer** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:17 am

In regards to the contrail/insurance bs, Peace Air also does charterwork, the clients being mostly oilfield industry types, who have their own insurance requirements for the charter companies they use, and those requirements are generally based on contrails specs. stupid but that's how it is in AB. As far as working the ramp for your first job, I worked the ramp but did not fly for that company when done, however, I did learn a lot of very good a\c handling skills that have helped down the road and which most employers look for. Rampees shouldn't be paid crap wages and should be treated well, and also shouldn't have carrots dangled in front of them. Either they get a seat after a period of time, or they have gained ground handling skills to get them their first job in which the boss doesn't want them towing the plane into a hanger wall or filling it with avgas instead of jet. I've met many a 'grad' that couldn't do the job. What i'm getting at is that ramping is good experience and worthwhile work but employers shouldn't be stringing guys along looking for cheap labour. The best run fbo's in North America employ ramp staff who aren't pilots..., third point, having done lot's of sub work for Peace, they are cheap, treat their employees with disdain and I'd be embarassed as the owner to have my picture on the website. I've been accused of flying dirty airplanes in the past but that wouldn't even compare...,the pilots do fly lots there and most of them come out with great skills and training, some don't but that's status quo. Depends on how lowly you can handle being treated...

Dave T · Post by **Dave T** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:59 am

Without all the garbage here it comes down to if you want to risk working the ramp for a company that just downsized in a major way and laid off pilots. It's that simple.

borntofly · Post by **borntofly** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:10 am

As soon as management steps in over there that's when the gong show starts. I bet most of the rampies and pilots that have left won't be missing the special lady there... you know the one that goes on the PA "RES line 3!!!" or here's a good one "DISPATCH line 4!!!". Anyone who's worked at Peace Air would know who this person is.

What boggles my mind is this.....I heard they got rid of the Pilatus' because a single engine turbine is no good for oil field and they are planning on getting more Jetstreams to expand the operation. So if this was all planned, Why did they lay off Pilatus drivers that have families to support and bills to pay all of a sudden. I mean after all it was PLANNED!

"Surprise guys, we are getting more Jetstreams (one to replace the one in Fort St.John) and we're very EXCITED!! Big things are happening! blah blah blah and the Pilatus drivers are getting laid off" - Great speech by B.V

I'm a pilot and I will always stick up for my fellow pilots and rampies out there. There is good management out there boys and girls, just look at NCA and Sunwest for example.

Out of Control · Post by **Out of Control** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:35 am

I work for Peace Air. I can personally say they treat me great. They now pay industry standard. The did not in the past so we approached them professionally about it and they gave us raises. Working 3 days a week is pretty tough. If you need a certain day off, just ask for it and they will give it to you and not count it as vacation. Seems pretty sweet to me.

As far as I know they are trying to get the 250 hour wonder right seat on the Jetstream again, we should find this out in the middle of May.

Altiplano- Peace Air has lots to do with Contrail so shut your trap unless you know what your talking about.

As for "Big plans in the future" comment. What company does not have this saying. I have been in this game for awhile now and you will learn to believe it when you see it on the ramp. But until then keep doing what your doing.

For all the low timers- If you are interested in Peace Air they are hiring. Don't be afraid to ask them what there time line is for a flying position. The more questions you ask the better. Good luck to you all.

To all the rampies that have left Peace Air this last month it has been a pleasure working with all of you. You guys did a great job and made my life much easier doing the little things that need to get done, we could not have got er done with out you. Good luck to you all.

borntofly · Post by **borntofly** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:59 am

What about the Pilatus pilots that got laid off? I mean should'nt the company bring those boys and girls back? After being with the company for a couple of years for some of them and gettin paid $1700 a month for F/Os on the 12.

Pilatus pilots with more time spent at the company and more hours got paid less than Jetstream pilots. Wow that's a big kick in the balls!

$1700 a month was a PC-12 F/O wage and that isn't industry standard but I think it qualifies you for Welfare still.

Hmmm....I wonder if the pay issue for the Pilatus drivers was why they lost a lot of pilots to Air Sprint.

neechi · Post by **neechi** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:12 am

FlightFX wrote:you are in this industry because you love to fly, yes no, not to get rich! So STOP your bitchin and find another career! Sucsess is not based on your bankbook but more or less the accomplishments you have made!!Good luck getting a right seat !

I think your attitude may change when u move out of your parents basement, buy a condo in Calgary for 250K and try to raise a family on your "love of aviation". This profession should be pay $$$ and the ppl who just do it for the enjoyment should have stayed private pilots!

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:44 am

wanpaku-ed · Post by **wanpaku-ed** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:18 pm

Haven't you heard, rules don't, nor ever have applied to peaceair...at least that is what the fools running the show at peaceair believe.

privateer · Post by **privateer** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:10 pm

WAWA....

Its a slow Death I believe

spaz · Post by **spaz** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:32 pm

By the way, how many planes have they crashed in the past seven or eight years? Five by my count, and I'm not just talking about hangar rash either. Luckily there hasn't been more fatalities. I know alot of shitty 703/704 operators that don't come close to that kind of bent metal.

Great culture, really fostering an atmosphere of safety. We don't have to debate whether PA is a 'good' or 'safe' outfit, the record speaks for itself, that isn't normal or acceptable.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:00 pm

Don't know much about Peace Air, but if the FO has 250 hours, I'm not getting on the aircraft. And, a company that hires pilots to work the ramp is looking for slaves. But, I guess you all spent 30K to be loaders?

Pratt X 3 · Post by **Pratt X 3** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:43 pm