we all saw it!

arewethereyet · Post by **arewethereyet** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:59 pm

I cant imagine why you would have taken off. were you late? did you have to get home? were you low on fuel? Now i know you were in position as we all could see you for the 3 min that you sat there. then the storm hit and we couldnt see crap. i guess it didnt matter to you!..... YOU LAUNCHED IN THE MIDDLE OF IT!!!!!!!

CYYZ 232046Z 27041G51KT 1/4SM +SHRA FEW013 SCT038 OVC045 14/ RMK SF2SC2SC4 CB EMBD LTGCC

then you launched.. did you here someone say your (CRAZY!)on118.7 as you rolled down the runway!

and you probably didnt hear the falcon that left after the cell had past..."we just lost 30 @ 200 feet" easily could have been a lot more.

after you left we all sat there.. the bizz jet on the runway.. and 9 others. the bizz jet said he wasnt going to go, and if needed he would taxi off the runway to give way. NOBODY!!! not one person said anything. and thats after it was over.

way to go pal!!! im glad it all worked out! next time smarten up!!!

arewethereyet · Post by **arewethereyet** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:13 pm

sorry just to clarify.. it was wj 654 and tower repeated it twice.....

270 @40g54 !!!

looproll · Post by **looproll** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:45 am

damn, a big WTF to that

hind sight · Post by **hind sight** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:11 am

WOW !

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:14 am

Hopefully WJ Safety has grounded the crew until they conduct the investigation at least that's what would happen at AC.

It will be interesting to see how the owners handle it...

flyinphil · Post by **flyinphil** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:17 am

Was there an incident? Otherwise, why unless SOP's were violated,would there be an investigation?

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:23 am

flyinphil wrote:Was there an incident? Otherwise, why unless SOP's were violated,would there be an investigation?

Ahh what part don't you get?

CCR · Post by **CCR** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:45 am

Was there a windshear report prior? Was there lightning observed by any flight crew? Were the conditions in the metar provided before or after the departure.That wind vector is not all that uncommon for YYT. Full Rated power with windshear detection equipment onboard...maybe not as unsafe as you think. Will pass it along to FS though. Thanks much!!

Bugz · Post by **Bugz** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:55 am

1/4 sm in RA with a headwind down the pipe...I don't see why your panties are in a knot. I wasn't there, but based on your description, just because others decided not to go, why would that make it unsafe for WJ. If a C-172 decided not to go because of a 30kt crosswind, does that mean everyone should be grounded? Everyone has to do what is within their skill and comfort level. I don't think any crew of any company sitting on the button would say "Well, I don't know how this is going to turn out, but lets give it a shot!"

jjj · Post by **jjj** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:18 am

arewethereyet,

I wasn't aware that every WS pilot frequented this Forum. What a great way to communicate your dissatisfaction with a WS crew's performance. You can't beat going right to the source.

A post like yours only serves to mudsling.

WS has a Flight Safety department like any other airline as well as an independent Flight Data Monitoring program.

I recommend that you go thru appropriate channels if you have a grievance.

jjj

arewethereyet · Post by **arewethereyet** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:42 am

i sat there right beside the duefess as he rolled down the runway. IT WAS A HUGE FUCKING STORM!!!! NOBODY SHOULD LAUNCH IN SHIT LIKE THAT!!!.. IT WASNT DOWN THE PIPE AND THE STEAM PLANT WAS HIT BY LIGHTNING JUST SECONDS BEFORE.

if you would like to pm me... ass.. then we will go up to the tower and you can talk to a few friends of mine and see what they thought of it!!!

why dont you have a listen.. http://www.liveatc.net/listen.php

now if your that guy that launched... you need a some serious help pal.
we had a number of people on the flight deck that all agree it was a stupid decision.

arewethereyet · Post by **arewethereyet** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:44 am

by the way idiot.. i never applied to westjet, or have a desire to.

cheers!

arewethereyet · Post by **arewethereyet** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:15 am

and before all you guys start saying I'm bashing your team, think again. ... you guys are all true professionals in every sense. I am just still shocked about it all... my family wasn't on the plane that day..and for that I'm glad.. but they will be tomorrow ..

ivanhoe · Post by **ivanhoe** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:38 am

arewethereyet

Not only are you "not there yet" , you don't have a clue of where "there" is.
Your post is so wrong on so many levels , I hardly know where to begin.

If your true concern is safety , might I suggest a call to WestJet to have the FACTS come out in an investigation.

If your fears are realised , then MAYBE you have the right to post on the internet but I have to wonder what sort of a pitiful human being would feel the need to do so.

Honestly...people like you make me want to puke.

jjj · Post by **jjj** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:40 am

In the interest of changing the tone of this string I have edited my previous post.

I'm not sure which Phone #'s I can post because I'm not sure which are specific to internal use only.

I can however provide an 800 number from the Yellow Pages.

1-888-293-7853

The person on the line can transfer you to the main Hanger or they will provide you with a local telephone number to the Hanger.

Reception at the Main Hanger will be able to direct your call to Flight Safety.

That is the best I can do for now.

jjj

WJ700 · Post by **WJ700** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:02 pm

safety@westjet.com

edited. As wrc said... this thread is just wrong. I personally can't just asssume what happened without any actual facts.

arewethereyet · Post by **arewethereyet** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:18 pm

you guys just don't get it and that's what scares me.....IT WAS A STORM!!!!!!

anyhow have fun with it.. and I'm not going to bother with calling anyone about it since it sounds like its just the norm for you guys.

plus wtf do I know anyways.

WJ700 · Post by **WJ700** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:30 pm

jjj · Post by **jjj** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:35 pm

arewethereyet, what don't YOU get.

You bitched and we responded and gave you the tools to bring your grievance directly to the proper people.

You have quickly changed your tune from "I'm not bashing your team...." to "....it sounds like the norm for you guys."

If I witness an unsafe practice at work I take it upon myself to deal with it according to proper protocols - that is my responsibility.

I cannot however make an inquest because of something read on an aviation forum.

If you truly believe you witnessed a gross violation of proper operating procedure then I encourage you to contact WS on the matter.

Do you have anything else to say?

My apologies if we have ruined your anti-WS fun-time bash-along.

jjj

Schlem · Post by **Schlem** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:18 pm

It sounded like tower mentioned that there was a cell 2 miles off the end of the runway and advised an immediate 50 degree left turn after departure and they still went. I guess they missed the other trial balloon tower was sending with the emphatic repeat of the winds too.

I dead head on WJ all the time and I'm really shocked that the crew elected to depart under those circumstances.

Schlem · Post by **Schlem** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:22 pm

WJ700 wrote:I just went to an online crosswind calculator and assuming the runway in use was 23, it's only 28 knots from the right. That leaves 10 knots to spare.

28 knot gusting crosswind with how much standing water on the runway? It's about risk management.

WJ700 · Post by **WJ700** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:48 pm

edit.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:13 pm

[quote="WJ700
I really have no idea becuase this is an internet chat forum with half the facts missing. But, we have xwind limits for standing water and they were still in.[/quote]

Normally you express good common sense however airmanship always takes precedence over published limits. If the few facts that have been published so far are accurate one has to express concern over any crew that would take-off into a thunderstorm. I don’t think anyone in WJ management or WJS would be impressed by such a practice but I digress…

Hmm if the report is accurate this crews successful launch had more to do with dumb luck then any display of airmanship..

ishouldknowbetter · Post by **ishouldknowbetter** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:11 pm

delete

Flightlevels · Post by **Flightlevels** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:12 pm

rwethereyet, don't preach professionalism if you can't display it yourself.