Takeoff- To roll or not to roll?

Blue Side Down · Post by **Blue Side Down** » Sat May 05, 2007 3:55 pm

Just curious...

Add your opinion if you'd like.

zero · Post by **zero** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:21 pm

Ahh, the age old question. You'll get many differing opinions on this one...to roll or not to roll.

Time to open another can of worms.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:26 pm

Yeh, I'm staying out of this one for sure.

There are just to many variables.

bigsky · Post by **bigsky** » Sat May 05, 2007 10:03 pm

High wing- Low wing?
Long float-short float?
Electric flaps-Manual flaps?
Long Lake-Short Lake?
Windy-Calm?
Big Waves-Small ripple?

Oh yea how about on a river..upstream or downstream..this is my favorite, now throw in a 5 knot wind on a 6 knot current? Man that makes one think..

There are so many things that can influence your decision.

flyinphil · Post by **flyinphil** » Sat May 05, 2007 11:03 pm

Man, I must have sucked as a bush pilot. I can count on one hand the number of times I really felt rolling it off would help.

I just used airspeed, feel and a little judgement....

wasYKnowFJ · Post by **wasYKnowFJ** » Sat May 05, 2007 11:28 pm

Definitely sometimes.

phillyfan · Post by **phillyfan** » Sat May 05, 2007 11:28 pm

There are times when it is not simply a good idea, it is required.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun May 06, 2007 7:41 am

There are times when it is not simply a good idea, it is required.

Unless you want to do the trip on the step.

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Sun May 06, 2007 11:36 am

Places like Kingcome; Hartley Bay in a blow; Neuchatlitz - place, condition, w/x, load, tide, swell, mood - dependent.

Or, like Cat says, if you're not actually planning to fly, such as Owikeno to Bella Coola or Tahsis to CeePeeCee in the fog and you have a corner or two to take, like around logs or boats.

No rule.

rampbitch · Post by **rampbitch** » Sat May 12, 2007 7:19 pm

you dont know what yer talkin about zero.
its a simple answer.
jackass.

zero · Post by **zero** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:06 pm

180 · Post by **180** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:45 pm

I almost always roll one float off first, especially in tight spots or when I'm heavy or when I'm leaving an alpine lake. (And especially especially when I'm loaded on a tight alpine lake.) When you feel that first float lifting off the water, you know you've almost got enough speed to fly which takes the guessing work out of whether you'll be getting off the water or not. Nothing worse than speeding towards the end of a tight spot with obstacles ahead and not being 100% sure if she'll be getting airborne or not.

My nickles worth...

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:43 pm

My nickles worth...

That is at least a dollars worth 180.

Jimmy Mack · Post by **Jimmy Mack** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:03 pm

I do that during takeoff in wheel aircraft; get the speed up, tip the one wing up and away we go!

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun May 13, 2007 5:55 pm

I do that during takeoff in wheel aircraft; get the speed up, tip the one wing up and away we go!

You have hydrodynamic drag on take off on wheels Jimmy?

tcraft · Post by **tcraft** » Sun May 13, 2007 7:02 pm

Hey, how do I vote?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun May 13, 2007 7:17 pm

This is interesting, I wonder how much float plane time they have?

When a crosswind must be corrected for ----- 15% [ 5 ]

West Coast Swell · Post by **West Coast Swell** » Sun May 13, 2007 10:14 pm

I find it fun when given the right wind and water conditions to lift the downwind float out of the water and then go step taxi turning around the corner on the upwind float. Nevermind trying to get off the water fast. For the immediate launch technique you gotta use the super snubber technique. If you can pull that one off with confidence even a bald, fat, ugly middle age guy like me is gonna score points with ...... !

Let me share with you what I have learned after flying Coastal Floats for 12 years.

Rule number:

1. Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story.
2. If you don't shit you die.
3. You have to live somewhere.
4. Nickels and dimes add up to dollars and dollars pay our wage. (Barf)
5. and its not about having a good time its about being safe.

that's it....that's the sum of all my knowledge.

West Coast Swell · Post by **West Coast Swell** » Sun May 13, 2007 10:28 pm

Ohhhh ... forgot to mention one last thought.

Sometimes if your heavy .... or whatever ... you could be light too, it really doesn't matter actually. You can lift the wing with the cross wind itself rather than correcting for it. Kinda opposite to what they teach you in school but it really helps lift that float out of the water fast. I sometimes do this if I want to go this way rather than that way because its a waste of time. Kinda like a big downwinder take off technique. Anyways, whatever... once that upwind wing lifts ... depending on the velocity, you need to be twitchy fast on the old ailerons to keep the downwind wing from contacting the water. Just keep the downwind turn going on the downwind float for a bit longer and bobs your uncle. Once your airbourne its life as usual ... minus the 90 degree crosswind and the quarting tailwind once you finish the turn to go this way. If you don't think this is safe don't do it! Once you're airbourne its straight to the logging camp for breakfast or lunch.

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Mon May 14, 2007 7:43 am

Has anyone here ever compared whether or not the "roll" technique really is better for chewing up less lake?

I mean a balls out experiment. Same winds, same start point. Measuring distance.

All of the anectotal stuff is good, and it kinda makes sense. Just wondering.

I've heard whether you roll or not makes no difference in take off distance. Would be nice to hear someone say, "Yes I've tried both ways in exact same conditions, and on plane XYZ the takeoff distance was 100 feet less." Something like that.

-istp

2R · Post by 2R » Mon May 14, 2007 6:03 pm

What do those guys with the single float Ryans do ???

Top-Gun · Post by **Top-Gun** » Mon May 14, 2007 8:28 pm

do what you want....however.....if there is no need too....remember that it can freak out your passengers!....THEY PAY YOUR CHECK$$$$.

West Coast Swell · Post by **West Coast Swell** » Tue May 15, 2007 8:12 am

For the single float hull guys we just maintain our takeoff attitude with pitch control and wait for the hull to rise out of the water to get airbourne. Not much rocket science here other than don't loose the attitude by diggin the bow or letting the plane sit back on the false step or else you risk going for a scary departure porpoise.

old eagle · Post by **old eagle** » Tue May 15, 2007 2:53 pm

west coast swell-- now that you have made that perfectly clear i was thinking maybe a day off would help, however when i looked at the schedule i see you and i are working together for the next two days. I will chill the beers

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Tue May 15, 2007 5:59 pm

istp wrote:Has anyone here ever compared whether or not the "roll" technique really is better for chewing up less lake?

I mean a balls out experiment. Same winds, same start point. Measuring distance.

All of the anectotal stuff is good, and it kinda makes sense. Just wondering.

I've heard whether you roll or not makes no difference in take off distance. Would be nice to hear someone say, "Yes I've tried both ways in exact same conditions, and on plane XYZ the takeoff distance was 100 feet less." Something like that.

-istp

No, I've never tried a full-on scientific experiment, but it's been my personal observation that the only time rolling a float makes a real appreciable difference is under conditions of heavy, hot and light winds/glassy. It's definitely not something that needs to be this over-analyzed.

Takeoff- To roll or not to roll?

When is it appropriate to roll onto one float during takeoff?

Takeoff- To roll or not to roll?