Turns after takeoff.

Doctor Evil · Post by **Doctor Evil** » Tue May 15, 2007 10:47 pm

Just looking for clarification on a topic that seems to cause confusion for some people. If you are departing an airport where there are noise abatement procedures in effect ( CYYC rwy 16-- no right turns below 4300) and tower asks you for a right turn after takeoff before switching to departure do you still need to climb to 4300 before turning.I always do but some guys say the request from tower over-rides the noise requirements.Thanks.

Jerricho · Post by **Jerricho** » Wed May 16, 2007 6:12 am

Yes, you comply with the noise abatement procedure before the turn.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Wed May 16, 2007 9:28 am

In those airports where it applies, I've often heard ATC say something along the lines of:

"After noise turn XXX"

or "After 3,600 turn XXX"

Jerricho · Post by **Jerricho** » Wed May 16, 2007 9:56 am

Correct.

The only time noise abatement should be deviated from is for reasons of safety.

cossack · Post by **cossack** » Wed May 16, 2007 10:31 am

What Jerricho alludes to is more a Terminal thing.
To clarify a YYZ Tower specific...
If the tower gives you a heading to fly you turn at 1100asl or "as soon as able" as some say. This will happen to all props and to some small jets (RJ turn procedure will give a turn and 3000 feet) in order to increase throughput. This is an "authorized" turn and does not come under the noise abatement requirements.
From runway 23 you will often be given "turn right heading 245 (or 250 in strong NW winds) as soon as able" in conditions where your track would drift towards the 24s if left on the SID. This turn must be made as soon as able not at 1.9D or 3600 feet as it is used to achieve divergence from those departing 24L/R.
DC

Jerricho · Post by **Jerricho** » Wed May 16, 2007 6:26 pm

Aye mate, but you tower type gods just can't decide "Bollocks to noise for the next 10 minutes while we fire at will"

stofer · Post by **stofer** » Thu May 17, 2007 1:16 pm

The 4300' turn restriction at CYYC is not noise abatement.

cossack · Post by **cossack** » Thu May 17, 2007 1:30 pm

Au contraire mon ami, standard procedure rather than ad-hoc machine-gunnery.

Dave T · Post by **Dave T** » Thu May 17, 2007 5:19 pm

I know what you are talking about in YYC. The SID lists a couple turn restrictions. I don't think that tower will not ask you to violate these. What I think you are talking about are the noise restrictions. If you look carefully at the top of the page it says that they only apple to turbo jet aircraft.
So there you go if you're not a jet you are allowed to turn.

wordstwice · Post by **wordstwice** » Sun May 20, 2007 10:04 am

justplanecrazy · Post by **justplanecrazy** » Sun May 20, 2007 10:08 am

When tower issues you a turn, it won't normally be contrary to noise abatement. They're using turns for initial sep and like Dave said, noise usually only applies to turbo jet for most procedures. So if you're a prop, they'll crank you and blast another off behind you. I believe YYC is set up with auto turns so tower can issue turns without prior terminal co-ordination even, in order to keep firing at will. I'm not sure why tower would issue you a turn that they're not expecting to take place until after noise and 4 miles off the end. Why wouldn't terminal just issue it then?

Once you're over to terminal it's another story and they should be stating after noise or out of 4,300 turn left blah, blah, blah. There are several scenarios like thunderstorms or unusual traffic situations, that cause noise to be thrown out the window and turn left means turn left. An ATC instruction generally overrides standard procedures... ie. speed limits. I'm not keen enough to do it but if a guy went through CARS, they'd probably find that ATC telling them to turn left with no other restrictions, permits them to cancel the remaining noise abatement and turn left.