Stick & Rudder Skills ...

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Mon May 28, 2007 7:34 am

... are clearly obsolete in our brave new age of glass cockpits.

From Avweb:

COLUMBIA 350 LANDING CRASH KILLS THREE

Three people died Saturday morning when their Columbia 350 (N2537A)
crashed while landing at the Mountain Air Country Club, an airport and
golfing community in Burnsville, N.C., about 35 miles northeast of
Asheville.

Witnesses said the four-seat airplane bounced hard on landing and
subsequently hit six other aircraft. The Columbia and two other
airplanes it struck were destroyed in a post-crash fire while two others
were damaged by heat and debris, according to reports.

Ron Wright, vice president of administration for Columbia Aircraft Manufacturing Corp, told KTZV.COM, "Witnesses basically said it
slammed down really hard, bounced up about 10 feet...[and the pilot]
ended up stalling it."

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/a ... tml#195284

I have to ask ... since someone died, obviously there is criminal
negligence here.

But who is criminally negligent? Surely not the private pilot, because
as we all know, stick and rudder skills are obsolete in our brave
new age of "systems management" and all-glass cockpits.

So, was his flight instructor "criminally negligent" for not teaching
how to land? Was his flight examiner "criminally negligent" for not
noticing that he didn't know how to land? Or is the CEO of the
company "criminally negligent" for producing an aircraft capable of
such deadly results?

The "Hang 'em High" crowd should feel free to chime in any time ...

niss · Post by **niss** » Mon May 28, 2007 8:04 am

Could it just be a shitty landing that has gone horribly awry?

For all you know he could have been a decent pilot who tried to gain control of it but it just took him for a ride.

How do you know he didnt train on a simple tailwheel and bought himself a computer with wings?

flyinphil · Post by **flyinphil** » Mon May 28, 2007 8:23 am

niss wrote:Could it just be a shitty landing that has gone horribly awry?

For all you know he could have been a decent pilot who tried to gain control of it but it just took him for a ride.

I hope your post is just for argument sake niss. The only people that "ride" airplanes are passengers. The rest of us operate them. Positive control of the craft and knowing when to bail are part of operating, not "riding".

Hedley, the airport operator is also negligent in not providing adequate maneuvering area for the "riders".

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Mon May 28, 2007 8:36 am

hmm ....

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Mon May 28, 2007 9:09 am

Hedley wrote:hmm ....

Thank you.

niss · Post by **niss** » Mon May 28, 2007 9:47 am

flyinphil wrote:
niss wrote:Could it just be a shitty landing that has gone horribly awry?

For all you know he could have been a decent pilot who tried to gain control of it but it just took him for a ride.

I hope your post is just for argument sake niss. The only people that "ride" airplanes are passengers. The rest of us operate them. Positive control of the craft and knowing when to bail are part of operating, not "riding".

Hedley, the airport operator is also negligent in not providing adequate maneuvering area for the "riders".

It was for more or less argument sake, my point of him being a rider was that something happened on final and he tried his best to control it and in the end the a/c won. Great pilots die just as easily as bad ones when the circumstances are right. That was just my point. For all we know this guy didnt know his ass from a hole in the ground but he very well could have been a decent pilot. I am willing to bet that many of us sitting here dont know the guy who trained him, or what he trained on, there is just alot of assuming and speculation as to why him and his passengers are no longer alive

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Mon May 28, 2007 9:57 am

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Mon May 28, 2007 7:15 pm

Hedley wrote:

Oh my... not this picture again...

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Mon May 28, 2007 10:04 pm

Hedley wrote:

Thank you.

niss · Post by **niss** » Tue May 29, 2007 5:06 am

Just take a look at what you left out in your quote hedley

Both doctors reportedly worked at the St. Petersburg (Fla.) General Hospital. Colleagues and friends told the St. Petersburg Times that both men were experienced pilots -- Freeble was a flight instructor and Camuzzi had been flying for some 20 years.

I would like to think that after 20 years of flying they knew how to get out of a bounce, so that makes me wonder what else went on when they were landing.

Guido · Post by **Guido** » Tue May 29, 2007 5:31 am

niss wrote:Just take a look at what you left out in your quote hedley

Both doctors reportedly worked at the St. Petersburg (Fla.) General Hospital. Colleagues and friends told the St. Petersburg Times that both men were experienced pilots -- Freeble was a flight instructor and Camuzzi had been flying for some 20 years.
I would like to think that after 20 years of flying they knew how to get out of a bounce, so that makes me wonder what else went on when they were landing.

To play devil's advocate, 20 years experience may also have meant overconfidence... it would have been embarassing to do a go-around if you're a flight instructor with 20 years experience. We (those with the advantage of hindsight) know this isn't the truth... but it's a definite possibility.

niss · Post by **niss** » Tue May 29, 2007 5:40 am

Definately, but my point was that this may not have been a case of they dont teach stick and rudder skills anymore, or todays pilots are incompentant. I would like to give Hed the benfit of the doubt and assume that he just missed the part of this guys experience but with that part missing and Hedleys title it seems a little bit suspicious n'est pas?

Its good to open a dialogue so we can all learn about it and hopefully avoide such a disaster in the future, but to neglect the experience of the pilots and use it as a cause to discredit todays training as inferiror (especially since when these guys trained they didnt have the fancy new glass cockpits) just doesnt seem to be fair or fitting to the scenario, thats all.

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Tue May 29, 2007 6:24 am

Couldn't resist

Goose757 · Post by **Goose757** » Tue May 29, 2007 8:07 am

Damn you snowgoose. You're photo-finding gift has gone too far!!!

Dust Devil · Post by **Dust Devil** » Tue May 29, 2007 8:22 am

Hedley wrote:hmm ....

cool, face painting and balloon art!!!

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Tue May 29, 2007 8:38 am

Goose757 wrote:Damn you snowgoose. You're photo-finding gift has gone too far!!!

You can thank Niss for that jem. He spent all his dough on his bike, with nothing left for riding gear.

... · Post by **...** » Tue May 29, 2007 9:30 am

Oh yes I did....

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Tue May 29, 2007 10:05 am

Was that your birthday present?

superiorwhore · Post by **superiorwhore** » Wed May 30, 2007 3:33 pm

I am Birddog wrote:Oh yes I did....

ROTFLMAO, now that is awesome

rigpiggy · Post by **rigpiggy** » Thu May 31, 2007 6:41 am

Dr. Freddy Camuzzi and Dr. Charles "Chas" Freeble III

Just goes to prove my thesis that doctor's and Lawyer's have no more business in an airplane, than I have presribing drugs, or arguing a court case

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Thu May 31, 2007 6:45 am

bmc · Post by **bmc** » Thu May 31, 2007 7:11 am

Wow...what guy wears a thong?

flyinphil · Post by **flyinphil** » Thu May 31, 2007 8:08 am

bmc wrote:Wow...what guy wears a thong?

I am betting there is a white cross on the front of that thing so....the Swiss??

bmc · Post by **bmc** » Thu May 31, 2007 8:30 am

flyinphil wrote:
bmc wrote:Wow...what guy wears a thong?
I am betting there is a white cross on the front of that thing so....the Swiss??

Ya know.....there is a German side of Switzerland, where they all seem to have large foreheads. I wouldn't be surprised by your assertion in the least.