French ATC radio communication

Captain S itmagnet · Post by **Captain S itmagnet** » Sun May 13, 2007 10:36 pm

Not, repeat, not trying to stir up an old topic here regarding the validity of using french on the airwaves in Canada. I am certain it's been brought up many times here.

What do controllers use as a "reminder" that a crew is working with a flight in english or french? ie is there a "tag" on our strip for example? During a recent bit of Quebec flying I had several instances where we missed a call due the controller calling us in french some time after previous calls exchanged in english.

Just wondering. Thanks.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sun May 13, 2007 11:37 pm

They move a little green frog across the radar scope with the aircraft they are talking French with...sorry, I couldn't help it.

Braun · Post by **Braun** » Mon May 14, 2007 6:28 am

We have what are called SFI's (special function indicator I believe) basically it's a letter from A-Z that we can put beside a datatag to show a number of different things. An example is let say two overflights to YYZ, the english one would have a "Z" beside his tag and the french a "W". This way you know what language and where he is going. They also use it to show what runways are assigned and other info.

the_professor · Post by **the_professor** » Tue May 15, 2007 10:22 am

French has no place on the ATC airwaves in Canada when it is an accepted standard virtually everywhere else in the world.

It degrades the situational awareness of the english-speaking pilots on frequency, increases complexity for controllers, reduces staffing flexibility, and is just another ridiculous way of reinforcing the paranoia exhibited by Quecebers: Your language is not going to disappear as a result of it not being spoken by a couple hundred pilots on the frequency.

Zatopec · Post by **Zatopec** » Tue May 15, 2007 2:19 pm

I knew it! Three replies and here we go again!!!!

Come back here in 20 years and there will still be people going at it.

Enough, all right!!!

wingtip · Post by **wingtip** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:21 pm

the_professor wrote:French has no place on the ATC airwaves in Canada when it is an accepted standard virtually everywhere else in the world.

It degrades the situational awareness of the english-speaking pilots on frequency, increases complexity for controllers, reduces staffing flexibility, and is just another ridiculous way of reinforcing the paranoia exhibited by Quecebers: Your language is not going to disappear as a result of it not being spoken by a couple hundred pilots on the frequency.

Well wet runways reduce braking coefficients. Deal with it.

superiorwhore · Post by **superiorwhore** » Tue May 15, 2007 6:39 pm

Zatopec wrote:I knew it! Three replies and here we go again!!!!

Come back here in 20 years and there will still be people going at it.

Enough, all right!!!

Woooo, your a moderator. never saw you here before, do I say welcome to avcanada.

MCA · Post by **MCA** » Tue May 15, 2007 7:35 pm

bla bla bla...

we use a F on the tag when the guy speaks french, and we "paint" the ACID on the strip with some yellow pen. where english is the minority language, english-speaking pilots get their strip "painted" in yellow.

Zatopec · Post by **Zatopec** » Wed May 16, 2007 5:39 am

superiorwhore wrote:
Zatopec wrote:I knew it! Three replies and here we go again!!!!

Come back here in 20 years and there will still be people going at it.

Enough, all right!!!
Woooo, your a moderator. never saw you here before, do I say welcome to avcanada.

W-h-a-t-e-v-e-r!!

the_professor · Post by **the_professor** » Wed May 16, 2007 7:55 am

wingtip wrote:
the_professor wrote:French has no place on the ATC airwaves in Canada when it is an accepted standard virtually everywhere else in the world.

It degrades the situational awareness of the english-speaking pilots on frequency, increases complexity for controllers, reduces staffing flexibility, and is just another ridiculous way of reinforcing the paranoia exhibited by Quecebers: Your language is not going to disappear as a result of it not being spoken by a couple hundred pilots on the frequency.
Well wet runways reduce braking coefficients. Deal with it.

Wet runways are out of our control. Language is not.

babybus · Post by **babybus** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:46 am

The_professor

You are either not a pro pilot or just racist.
If you were a pro you may have flown to such places as Mexico City, an incredibly busy and bilingual airport yet no mid-airs have resulted from 90% of communications being in spanish....not to mention all other airports in South America.
What about flying in asia?Or Cuba or the Middle-east?Get my point?
You have issues with the french and that's it or else you would be on here saying how dangerous it is flying to Cancun.

tesox · Post by **tesox** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:04 am

Professor, if you're that worried about situational awareness while flying under montreal control, then learn french.

... · Post by **...** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:25 am

Here's a solution.

How about everyone shut the phuck up and deal with it.

Once all you superstar rock star pilots grow up and go international, you'll hear ATC people speaking to comrades in their mother tongue.

OR goto Africa where there is NO ATC in most regions and you'll find you have to fend for yourself with other non english speaking pilots inbound to the same airport.

Short of that, when it comes to 2 languages in Canada EVERYONE JUST SHUT THE PHUCK UP or pick up a language course and learn yourself something new.

Improve yourselves you unilanguage mongrels.

Zatopec · Post by **Zatopec** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:59 pm

Well said, Birddog!

lilfssister · Post by **lilfssister** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:06 pm

After 30ish years...agreed...dead duck, don't shoot it again.

cloudrunner · Post by **cloudrunner** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:27 pm

Here in Thailand we all speak English on the radio. The Thais are a proud people, just as the French-Canadians are, but they have the good sense to know that one language is the safest and that's how it's done. I really don't think all the 'rockstars' that fly London-Dubai one week and London-Hong Kong the next week and London-Seoul the next week have been spending all their free time learning Arabic, Cantonese and Korean.

I have spoken to ATC here and they would love nothing more than to speak their native language because it is much easier for them, but they know that it would be a mess for obvious reasons. When they decided to become controllers, they realised that it was a pre-requisite to learn English and they accepted it and try their best. Those of us who fly in this region are thankful for their efforts. I have flown in Quebec myself and I can't say I have the same regard for a lot of ATC there. Whether's it's for convinience, politics or spite that they speak french I don't know but it sure makes life miserable for someone who hasn't 'improved themself' to an acceptable level and is trying to conduct the business of flying in Quebec.

My solution... Stay out of Quebec.. I'm sure they are just as happy about this as I am

Dust Devil · Post by **Dust Devil** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:19 pm

babybus wrote:The_professor

You are either not a pro pilot or just racist.

Is french a race? Why is it prejudice to bring up a valid safety concern?

SAR_YQQ · Post by **SAR_YQQ** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:36 pm

In France - the controllers only speak English...

In Quebec, it is your right as an anglophone to request every position report and other radio traffic to be translated by the local FSS.

ICAO regulations state the English is the language that shall be used - worldwide.

blackbear · Post by **blackbear** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:48 pm

I am french, and frankly, I don't feel confortable with the fact that people speaks only french on radio : just for question of safety, nothing else.
In the other hand, facts didn't show that is was more dangerous. French airports are as safe as others, but I can understand how feels our german/british (and son on) neighbours when they arrive here and can't understand what message has been given to the previous AF aircraft.

I am sorry to correct you SAR_YQQ, but in France, controllers only speak english with foreign aircrafts, not with companies having the french flag.

SAR_YQQ · Post by **SAR_YQQ** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:15 pm

blackbear wrote:I am sorry to correct you SAR_YQQ, but in France, controllers only speak english with foreign aircrafts, not with companies having the french flag.

No problems - I stand corrected. My information was obviously incorrect.

class4 · Post by **class4** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:44 pm

I don't understand why French is even being used as NavCanada isn't funded by the federal government (supposedly) and is a private corporation.

... · Post by **...** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:29 pm

cloudrunner wrote:Here in Thailand we all speak English on the radio. The Thais are a proud people, just as the French-Canadians are, but they have the good sense to know that one language is the safest and that's how it's done. I really don't think all the 'rockstars' that fly London-Dubai one week and London-Hong Kong the next week and London-Seoul the next week have been spending all their free time learning Arabic, Cantonese and Korean.

I have spoken to ATC here and they would love nothing more than to speak their native language because it is much easier for them, but they know that it would be a mess for obvious reasons. When they decided to become controllers, they realised that it was a pre-requisite to learn English and they accepted it and try their best. Those of us who fly in this region are thankful for their efforts. I have flown in Quebec myself and I can't say I have the same regard for a lot of ATC there. Whether's it's for convinience, politics or spite that they speak french I don't know but it sure makes life miserable for someone who hasn't 'improved themself' to an acceptable level and is trying to conduct the business of flying in Quebec.

My solution... Stay out of Quebec.. I'm sure they are just as happy about this as I am

One of my bestest of buddies fly's for Etihad. Captain on the A340. In fact he just flew out of YYZ this morning direct Abu Dhabi. He would say most of your post is wrong and misinformed. But hey, wtf do I know about anything really.

Phuket Thailand, now there's a play in words for ya.

Do me a favor and shut the Phuck up AND stay off of my "PHacebook" Wall you rat bastard...GIMME A JOB WHILE YER AT IT. I Phly Phly 'em good!!!

As Ms. lilfssister just stated about...this is a dead duck, now deep fry it and serve me up!

lilfssister · Post by **lilfssister** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:42 pm

I'm fresh outa duck here...I can probably stir fry some kitty cat flavoured with lime juice, tho?

<- <- <-

cloudrunner · Post by **cloudrunner** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:54 pm

I am Bird-doo wrote:Captain on the A340.

That impresses me about as much as if you told me he makes wonderful blueberry pankcakes.

I am Bird-don't wrote:He would say most of your post is wrong and misinformed

and I would say

I am Bird-dung wrote:Phuket Thailand, now there's a play in words for ya.

Not to suggest you are wrong or misinformed.. but it's pronounced Poo-Ket

I am a Bird-dong wrote:GIMME A JOB WHILE YER AT IT. I Phly Phly 'em good!!!

There's a standing offer on the table.. you land that Van of yours in Lake Ontario the next 5000 times and you're in.

I am a Bird, I am a Plane.. I am Suuuperrmaaan wrote:As Ms. lilfssister just stated about...this is a dead duck

This "duck" will never die. As long as there are Francophone ATS personel who can't get the chip off their shoulder about the rest of Canada not lining up to kiss their collective ass, they will continue to exercise their language "rights" to the detriment of safety.... and I will continue to stay the Phuck out of Quebec

But seriously.. c'mon over there's plenty of cheap Heineken,Thai food and massages for everyone

... · Post by **...** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:02 pm

Since when did you get so smart?

Since we're on the topic of you being the smart mouth

answer me this, I have a mysterious rash develop from that 'encounter' with the Korean circus midget I told you about. Remember the one, the midget with the blue Mohawk?! Anyway, since you’re so worldly now, what would be the customary thing to do here? Sprinkle tears of Gypsy on it? An African witch doctor with his array of possessed chicken bones? Or get some bi-lingual ATS to curse @ it in English with a Quebecer French accent?

1. I know it’s pronounced Poo-Ket you ass.

2. Having traveled a fair bit in my time, I know that cultural differences are the biggest hurdle amongst two or more sets of people. Heck, just go to Scarborough to see that. Perhaps it was more tone of voice rather than what was actually being said?

Is it shitty that many ‘may’ perceive ATS in Quebec to have a ‘chip’ on their shoulder? Perhaps. I have NEVER had that happen, and I have worked DEEP in Quebec (as you know) for a couple of years. Never ONCE…ever. All I was awarded was a high level of professionalism…in English flying through "bi-lingual airspace' with French Speaking controllers.

In fact, only until recently has an ENGLISH ATS unit treated me or a colleague in an despicable level of professional courtesy that has me wondering that it is just one particular ATC unit that seems to advocate demeaning transmissions to a ‘paying customer’. However, maybe it's just MY perception...that I have heard over 5 times to others as well. Maybe it's just me.

IN CONCLUSION FOR MY PARTICIPATION ON THIS THREAD

...nothing is perfect. We are all trying to make a living in the same biz. Treat everyone with the highest level of respect and professionalism and reap the rewards from that attitude toward colleagues.

Now, when I show up in POOO-KET, I will be seeking out a lot of ‘Heinnie’. Do I bring my own mug?