Flying a banner

rfcPilot · Post by **rfcPilot** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:37 pm

Just a quicky here for you guys.

Im thinking of flying a banner trailing my GA airplane. I dont know anyone who's ever done so, and google seems to find more links to hire the service than it does to give me useful links.

What are the regulations in terms of towing a banner, and what equipment do I need to do so?

Call it stupid, but I had in mind a banner attached to the tail tie-down hook and release it in mid flight, keeping it with me in the cockpit until its time. Obviously thats not something that can really work... so.. Anyone help me out?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:50 pm

Call it stupid,

How do you plan on getting the banner in the air?

Releasing it is the easy part.

Longtimer · Post by **Longtimer** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:52 pm

here is a start:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regse ... 000333.htm

Also I suspect your method could result in the Tailplane becoming fouled.

rfcPilot · Post by **rfcPilot** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:52 pm

How do you mean?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:27 pm

I'm sort of curious, what kind of airplane are you thinking of doing this with and what size banner?

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:33 pm

I've banner towed. It is not rocket science. The aircraft - either tailwheel or nosewheel, it doesn't really matter - needs an STC'd hook installed with a cable that runs forward in the cockpit, so the pilot can pull a level and open the hook. The important thing about a banner tow aircraft is that it have good power, and lots of oil cooling capacity. I have seen two oil coolers installed.

You take off with the line attached to the hook, and the grappling hook on the other end of the line inside the cockpit window.

You take off and toss the hook out the window, then circle around and pick the banner up. Bonus points for taking off and sidestepping and picking up the banner immediately after takeoff.

The bridle is strung between poles. The line runs forward to the front of the banner, which is sorta picked up the same way you would pull a band-aid off.

The pickup is fun. Driving around with the banner is boring. You must keep the speed down to avoid beating the crap out of the banner, and you spend most of your time watching the oil temperature climb.

When you're done, you do a low pass, pull the lever, drop the banner, then circle around and land.

The banner itself is built up, letter by letter. You're going to need more than one of each letter. A complete setup is NOT cheap.

In the USA, a test and log book endorsement is required. Not so in Canada AFAIK.

As usual, it really doesn't matter what the paper says. If you need training and don't get it from someone who knows how to do it, it's gonna hurt.

rfcPilot · Post by **rfcPilot** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:31 pm

Thanks for the info Hedley. Unfortunately... It sounds like a lot more trouble than it's worth for a one-time thing. I presume the STC'ed hook isnt available for all aircraft models too huh. (thinking Grumman Yankee)

seafeye · Post by **seafeye** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:09 am

You can google this...

I believe that glasser or glasseur banners supplies both the letters/signs/hooks/aircraft stuff to do this work.

Sure can be a hoot to pull but don't go to aerial messages in daytona beach....that guy killed 2 canadians 3 years ago with bad maint.

cplanedriver · Post by **cplanedriver** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:33 am

Dude, take it from someone who has been there done that....Forget it unless you have a few thousand bucks for equipment. The GASSER Banner Co sells the materials and you need an STC'd Schweizer tow hook, same as glider tugs....You will also need a permit from TC for each flight. How much Low and Slow experience do you have? In Florida a few pilots died when they deployed the cable with hook and it wound around the elevator....You need to think long and hard about this....I don't think you have enough airplane....Minimum, Super Cub or Citab with O-320.
And hedley is right about oil temps....If you use synthetic the pressure gets uncomfortably low. Have you forgotten about this idea yet?

Fly Safe

rfcPilot · Post by **rfcPilot** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:22 am

Actually, the complexity between cost, and required equipment (ie: I cant just jerry-rig something) scared me away a heck of a lot more than the risks. I do have a fair bit of slow flight experience (about 70mph or so) so I feel comfortable operating "low and slow", but its just not worth it for what I wanted to do.

Donald · Post by **Donald** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:56 am

but its just not worth it for what I wanted to do.

Don't worry, she'll still say "yes" when you pull out a big shiny rock!

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:03 am

Over the years I've toyed with the idea of picking up a used banner tow setup, and putting a hook on the Maule.

But I wouldn't do it for hire - I'd do it for fun. Let's say someone called Joe Smith pisses you off. Obviously you hook up a banner saying,

JOE SMITH SUCKS C0CKS

and you tow it around for a while. It would be well worth it, and I'm pretty sure there are no CARs contravened.

rfcPilot · Post by **rfcPilot** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:06 am

Nah, no way Im getting married. uh uh.

Shiny Side Up · Post by **Shiny Side Up** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:14 pm

If you need someone to tow a banner, call up Shitdisturber, he's the resident expert. In fact he loves it so much He'll probably come do it for ya.

dangerous · Post by **dangerous** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:51 pm

Hedley wrote:Over the years I've toyed with the idea of picking up a used banner tow setup, and putting a hook on the Maule.

But I wouldn't do it for hire - I'd do it for fun. Let's say someone called Joe Smith pisses you off. Obviously you hook up a banner saying,

JOE SMITH SUCKS C0CKS

and you tow it around for a while. It would be well worth it, and I'm pretty sure there are no CARs contravened.

Hedley,

I'm surprised you don't already tow around an anti-TC banner over downtown Ottawa!

niss · Post by **niss** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:58 pm

dangerous wrote:
Hedley wrote:Over the years I've toyed with the idea of picking up a used banner tow setup, and putting a hook on the Maule.

But I wouldn't do it for hire - I'd do it for fun. Let's say someone called Joe Smith pisses you off. Obviously you hook up a banner saying,

JOE SMITH SUCKS C0CKS

and you tow it around for a while. It would be well worth it, and I'm pretty sure there are no CARs contravened.
Hedley,

I'm surprised you don't already tow around an anti-TC banner over downtown Ottawa!

That would be....(Dare I say it?)......DANGEROUS!

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:17 pm

Shiny Side Up wrote:If you need someone to tow a banner, call up Shitdisturber, he's the resident expert. In fact he loves it so much He'll probably come do it for ya.

Bite me!

Blakey · Post by **Blakey** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:21 pm

niss wrote:
dangerous wrote:
Hedley wrote:Over the years I've toyed with the idea of picking up a used banner tow setup, and putting a hook on the Maule.

But I wouldn't do it for hire - I'd do it for fun. Let's say someone called Joe Smith pisses you off. Obviously you hook up a banner saying,

JOE SMITH SUCKS C0CKS

and you tow it around for a while. It would be well worth it, and I'm pretty sure there are no CARs contravened.
Hedley,

I'm surprised you don't already tow around an anti-TC banner over downtown Ottawa!
That would be....(Dare I say it?)......DANGEROUS!

Not necessarily. Might be reckless though!!!

Lommer · Post by **Lommer** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:26 pm

Ah but would it be criminally negligent?

bandit1 · Post by **bandit1** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:37 pm

I bet if someone bought Catdriver a plane ticket to Ottawa, he'd do it for free!

dangerous · Post by **dangerous** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:34 pm

Let's get both Cat and Hedley to tow banners over TC headquarters. Cat can tow a banner with his Cat, while flying in formation with Hedley, who will be inverted in his Pitts towing his own banner. But what will the banners say?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:39 pm

Hell, I can tow the banner and Hedley in his Pitts with his banner with a Cat.

Here is a picture of the Cat the guys sent me a couple of weeks ago in Holland.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e353/ ... ally-1.jpg

BeechjetYKZ · Post by **BeechjetYKZ** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:59 pm

I saw a plane towing around a banner reading "LEAFS SUCK, GO SENS GO" a few years ago. This was in Toronto BTW

Blakey · Post by **Blakey** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:41 am

dangerous wrote:Let's get both Cat and Hedley to tow banners over TC headquarters. Cat can tow a banner with his Cat, while flying in formation with Hedley, who will be inverted in his Pitts towing his own banner. But what will the banners say?

Yes, we could have Cat and Hedley in formation flying over TC headquarters. It will take some time to get this organized and get the banner equipment ready but we should be all set to go by the second week of September. Right around the 11th I figure. That shouldn't cause too much consternation!

Oh yes, for those not familiar with their location, TC is in Place de Ville which is a complex including twin towers in downtown Ottawa!

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:47 pm

Blakey wrote:
dangerous wrote:Let's get both Cat and Hedley to tow banners over TC headquarters. Cat can tow a banner with his Cat, while flying in formation with Hedley, who will be inverted in his Pitts towing his own banner. But what will the banners say?
Yes, we could have Cat and Hedley in formation flying over TC headquarters. It will take some time to get this organized and get the banner equipment ready but we should be all set to go by the second week of September. Right around the 11th I figure. That shouldn't cause too much consternation!

Oh yes, for those not familiar with their location, TC is in Place de Ville which is a complex including twin towers in downtown Ottawa!

So you're saying the 9/11 terrorists were a few hundred miles off course?