Be interested to hear how recent hires are making out. Particularly, those who left 100K/year type positions to fly for Air Canada. Is the life style everything you expected? I understand the short term pain for long term gain principle, but it seems to me that the pain is becoming longer and the gain is becoming smaller. Not trying to spark a debate about salary. I would just like to hear what the water is like from someone who has taken the plunge.
Thanks
Jerk
Life at 40 Grand?
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
Little consolation, but;
It has always been that way, and it ain't going to change!
...sadly.
I feel for the newhires as it is ridiculous how little they make. Less than the F/A, rampie, groomer, janitor..
The top-end pay has taken a kicking lately, that is where the decision lies.
Is the Major Airline worth it any more?
It has always been that way, and it ain't going to change!
...sadly.
I feel for the newhires as it is ridiculous how little they make. Less than the F/A, rampie, groomer, janitor..
The top-end pay has taken a kicking lately, that is where the decision lies.
Is the Major Airline worth it any more?
You are right, it is little consolation. Just because it "has always been that way" most certainly does not make it right. This archaic mentality needs to change.Johnny767 wrote:Little consolation, but;
It has always been that way, and it ain't going to change!
...sadly.
I feel for the newhires as it is ridiculous how little they make. Less than the F/A, rampie, groomer, janitor..
The top-end pay has taken a kicking lately, that is where the decision lies.
Is the Major Airline worth it any more?
Has the new hire salary always been roughly $40000? If the salary was the same in 1975.... Then todays equivalent would be $158000!!!
1980 = $103,953.03
1985 = $71,397.85
1990 = $57,613.88
1995 = $51,027.86
2000 = $47,259.79
2005 = $41,859.73
Sure is a sad sight!!!
http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/rates/inflation_calc.html
1980 = $103,953.03
1985 = $71,397.85
1990 = $57,613.88
1995 = $51,027.86
2000 = $47,259.79
2005 = $41,859.73
Sure is a sad sight!!!
http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/rates/inflation_calc.html
X 12 = $38086.08hypoxic wrote:May pay stub says $3173.84 monthly! Thats the base flat rate pay 1st year.2low wrote:New hires start at 31 grand on the EMJ. That's a fact, not rumor.
I'm not defending this pitiful amount, but wherever you're getting your information 2low, it's not from a pay stub.
I didn't find it too hard adjusting to the poverty pay. My wife was making $60g when I got hired and with expenses ($300-400) and being in a lower tax bracket the pay with practically the equivalent. It's not too hard to bump the pay up in the first 2 years by volunteering for the occasion sim...that pays an hourly rate times 4 hours = an extra $170 for each session you fill in.
Personally I really enjoy the lifestyle for the temporary financial setback. As a block holder I work 12-13 days a month and the phone NEVER rings with company on the other end.
Personally I really enjoy the lifestyle for the temporary financial setback. As a block holder I work 12-13 days a month and the phone NEVER rings with company on the other end.
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tripleseven
- Rank 4
- Posts: 266
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 9:56 am
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Brick Head
- Rank 8
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:37 pm
I came up with $3211.00 per month as of July o1/07hypoxic wrote:Has the new hire salary always been roughly $40000? If the salary was the same in 1975.... Then todays equivalent would be $158000!!!
1980 = $103,953.03
1985 = $71,397.85
1990 = $57,613.88
1995 = $51,027.86
2000 = $47,259.79
2005 = $41,859.73
Sure is a sad sight!!!
http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/rates/inflation_calc.html
Hypoxic,
My dad tell's the story of how in his day it was even worse than now. He is retired 5 years. When he was hired, Air Canada did not even provide a hotel room or meal expenses for the initial course. 5 of his class mates rented a 1 bedroom apartment for the initial 3 month course. I flew with one of his old room mates about a year ago. He actually had fond memories of it???????????
Go figure! Senility will do that though.
Thats not the half of it either. They were hired just as Air Canada started hiring a few older guys. Ya know really old.......late 20's early 30's. They had two of them on their course and nicknamed them Grandpa and Gramps. As it turns out Grandpa and Gramps had a couple of kids. ( not together) They figured out that the wage AC was paying was below the poverty line for a family of four so they applied for welfare. When Air Canada got wind of it they immediately raised the new hire pay to the poverty line threshold for a family.
My Dad swears this is true.
When I was hired, flat salary was 4 years. We had to share a hotel room and only got 1/2 the meal expenses.
I think today new hires get about 2/3 the meal expenses ( correct me???) and their own room.
I am not suggesting this is right. This mentality that I had to pay my dues so now you have to pay your dues is absurd.
Just make sure you don't forget so that when the next opportunity comes, however small it might be, you make the situation better for those that follow you.
Haven't received my July pay stub yet! Am I missing something?
Brick Head wrote:I came up with $3211.00 per month as of July o1/07hypoxic wrote:Has the new hire salary always been roughly $40000? If the salary was the same in 1975.... Then todays equivalent would be $158000!!!
1980 = $103,953.03
1985 = $71,397.85
1990 = $57,613.88
1995 = $51,027.86
2000 = $47,259.79
2005 = $41,859.73
Sure is a sad sight!!!
http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/rates/inflation_calc.html
Hypoxic,
My dad tell's the story of how in his day it was even worse than now. He is retired 5 years. When he was hired, Air Canada did not even provide a hotel room or meal expenses for the initial course. 5 of his class mates rented a 1 bedroom apartment for the initial 3 month course. I flew with one of his old room mates about a year ago. He actually had fond memories of it???????????
Go figure! Senility will do that though.
Thats not the half of it either. They were hired just as Air Canada started hiring a few older guys. Ya know really old.......late 20's early 30's. They had two of them on their course and nicknamed them Grandpa and Gramps. As it turns out Grandpa and Gramps had a couple of kids. ( not together) They figured out that the wage AC was paying was below the poverty line for a family of four so they applied for welfare. When Air Canada got wind of it they immediately raised the new hire pay to the poverty line threshold for a family.
My Dad swears this is true.
When I was hired, flat salary was 4 years. We had to share a hotel room and only got 1/2 the meal expenses.
I think today new hires get about 2/3 the meal expenses ( correct me???) and their own room.
I am not suggesting this is right. This mentality that I had to pay my dues so now you have to pay your dues is absurd.
Just make sure you don't forget so that when the next opportunity comes, however small it might be, you make the situation better for those that follow you.
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Brick Head
- Rank 8
- Posts: 882
- Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:37 pm
You are right, it is little consolation. Just because it "has always been that way" most certainly does not make it right. This archaic mentality needs to change.
The reality is, that with each and every contract negotiation. There is SO MUCH on the table, that the new-hire pay gets quickly forgotten.
Every Pilot lives through it, curses and promises to fix it, gets on "Formula Pay," and purges the bad memories.
40K is an improvement over previous years.
It is.... NOT GOING TO CHANGE!
Our next collective agreement is in 2009. After the kicking our pay has taken, the fear of keeping our Pension, our lousy work rules, our terrible Airport Hotel layovers....the list goes on..and on.
New-hire pay will not be on the Radar.
The reality is, that with each and every contract negotiation. There is SO MUCH on the table, that the new-hire pay gets quickly forgotten.
Every Pilot lives through it, curses and promises to fix it, gets on "Formula Pay," and purges the bad memories.
40K is an improvement over previous years.
It is.... NOT GOING TO CHANGE!
Our next collective agreement is in 2009. After the kicking our pay has taken, the fear of keeping our Pension, our lousy work rules, our terrible Airport Hotel layovers....the list goes on..and on.
New-hire pay will not be on the Radar.
Last edited by Johnny767 on Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Maybe with the 500+ that will be hired from now up to 2009 will help change that!Johnny767 wrote: ...
The reality is, that with each and every contract negotiation. There is SO MUCH on the table, that the new-hire pay gets quickly forgotten.
...
It is.... NOT GOING TO CHANGE!
...
New-hire pay will not even be on the Radar.
I have been here almost a year, after having left a $110k/year career with the CF. I thoroughly enjoy the lifestyle - 10 days per month average instead of the 28 days per month when I left the CF.
However, I probably wouldn't have done it without my CF pension (which is more than my AC paycheck). Also, my wife works..., so "life at 40 grand" is OK. But, hey..., everyone's situation is different, and you have to do what's best for you and your family depending on your personal circumstances.
However, I probably wouldn't have done it without my CF pension (which is more than my AC paycheck). Also, my wife works..., so "life at 40 grand" is OK. But, hey..., everyone's situation is different, and you have to do what's best for you and your family depending on your personal circumstances.
Four1oh,
What are the flight schools lying about? That the job market has increased substantially? That the pay scale increases as sceniority and machine size increases? We have had a ton of MIFR students leave us with little to no time and get jobs after 3 months on the ramp. One guy got a job offer pending the sign off of his commercial license. What exactly are the FTU's lying about? In case you have forgotten, it is a business just like any others.....No income, no lifestyle. Other businesses lie all the time. Mcdonalds say that thier food is great. It tastes like shit warmed over, but you don't hear anyone complaining about that lie do ya?
What are the flight schools lying about? That the job market has increased substantially? That the pay scale increases as sceniority and machine size increases? We have had a ton of MIFR students leave us with little to no time and get jobs after 3 months on the ramp. One guy got a job offer pending the sign off of his commercial license. What exactly are the FTU's lying about? In case you have forgotten, it is a business just like any others.....No income, no lifestyle. Other businesses lie all the time. Mcdonalds say that thier food is great. It tastes like shit warmed over, but you don't hear anyone complaining about that lie do ya?
"Shut up over there"
