Navajo Training

[cellharry7]

Any ideas on where in canada you can get say a NAvajo PPC or King Air PPC?

[Cat Driver]

Look for someone who needs a pilot and have them train you at their expense.

[Lurch]

What Cat said.

Grow some dignity and get it the same way everybody got theirs

[Doc]

Fish fish. Nice first post. We await your second witty excrement.

[Kelowna Pilot]

Grow some dignity and get it the same way everybody got theirs

Yeah, work on the ramp for minimum wage and mow the bosses lawn for him....

[Cat Driver]

Yeah, work on the ramp for minimum wage and mow the bosses lawn for him....

Yeh, how many here remember when you could fly a Navajo or any other airplane under 12,500 pounds with a check ride with a chief pilot....the PPC was something that we were fortunate to have not experienced.

And working as a ground bound slave was unheard of.

[Freddy_Francis]

Hey Cat

Ive always been dumbfounded by this whole "working the ramp is considered paying your dues" Im not expecting an exact date but when did all this start happening? It boggles the mind that people pay $40-50,000 and they start their career throwing bags rather than flying the plane....I dont get it, I know of ONE person and ONE person only in my short time that has made it from the ground to the airplane.

Like I said....boggles the mind

[Cat Driver]

Freddy, I can't put a time on when it started or became the norm, it is sort of like gonnorrea, one prerson gets it and after a few years without treatment it has spread to the whole village.

Do not buy the line that you have to work the ramp or in the office so the company can examine your work ethic...that is pure B.S. , just think about it, how many young pilots will be happy hard working little beavers doing manual labour for peanuts when all they want is to fly?

There will always be good workers and bad workers, if they are good a company advances them to better flying, if they are no good the company advances them out the door.

[TopperHarley]

It has everything to do with supply and demand. The supply of inexperienced new pilots far exceeds the demand.

Today, you can get away without working the ramp, but I still say it is not so easy to find a good flying job with the bare mins. There are several options, like banner towing, fire patrol, air tours, aerial photography, pipeline patrol, etc. And of course there is always the instructor route. I got a job as an aerial photographer when I finished school, but I left it to work the ramp. It worked out quite well for me. I have just as much time as my friends who didn't work the ramp, and I spent 14 months on the ground.

As much as people hate the idea of working a non-flying job, there are many avcanadians here who did just that and advanced successfully. There's horror stories on both sides.

Bottom line is, if you get a flying job, take it. If not, keep looking. If you get a ramp offer from a good company where the ramp time is very rapid (i.e. NAC), take it, and in the mean time apply for flying jobs. If no offer comes up, you'll still have a shot at a turbine plane within 12 months or less.

I would be willing to bet big $$$ that by the next time the big slow down occurs in the industry, people will be lining up for ramp jobs. I wouldnt be at all surprised if the "lurking" days return.

[Freddy_Francis]

C-HRIS its funny you mention NAC because that was the company my buddy got on after just 8months of the ramp. Cat thank you for making me picture the horrific picture of gonnorrea . I agree 1000% (i didnt make a mistake and add another 0) that a company saying they can "feel you out" by having you work the ramp is b.s. My questions is does it really take 2yrs to feel someone out? 2-3 months sure.....2 yrs? give me a break

"Hey Joe look how good 250hr guy has been fueling the planes this last 2yrs, he must be ready to be a captain by now!"

C-HRIS im glad everything worked out for you & no doubt there are horror stories from both sides. Even if there is a huge supply contrary to demand we shouldnt be punishing fresh students looking for work. My advice has always been someone who doesnt wanna work the ramp or instruct to get the JAA & go overseas. Its better to be on the ground for 1yr studying for the exams + flight tests, than sitting on the ground not gaining any flight experience. I could babble on forever about how wrong this is. Ill spare you all!

[jschnurr]

You realize that people lost interest in this thread 2780 days ago, don't you?

[iflyforpie]

What's even more baffling is that Topper Harley hasn't been C-HRIS for like five years now...,

[PilotDAR]

"Hey Joe look how good 250hr guy has been fueling the planes this last 2yrs, he must be ready to be a captain by now!"

That was me. Fueling and loading stuff was the easy part, it was scrubbing the grimy bellies which was miserable. But it built character, and kept me humble. I got right seat lots in the Aztec, and left seat for dead legs. When the new (to us) Cheyenne came, and it was time for the first shakedown flight, I was honoured with left seat. Later, while working ramp for a B707 operator, my ability to detect a filthy cargo hold, and just go and clean it, resulting in my "being noticed" in the best possible way, and I never regretted it.

Newbies, if the job has future, and you're being rewarded with opportunities, willingly do the grunt work too. You can be fairly sure that the person who owns the planes has done their fair share of grunt work, should they do more while you opt out?

I've been a volunteer firefighter for 24 years. I point out to all the newbies that they must never decline work because it seems beneath them. No one will ever ask them to do something that they would not do themselves. And, I point out when it's the Chief (who's been on for 36 years) who is scrubbing the wheels of a fire truck after a filthy call.

The job is more than just applying your massive 250 hours of experience to point a Navajo around the sky, willingly do the whole job.

[DonutHole]

As an apprentice ame, what really got my career on the move was being able to fix a honda pump, and install the pull chord for the start properly in under twenty minutes.

Ground support actually ended up being a huge responsibility. .. pilots get itchy when they can't leave because the start cart goes u/s.

A team is built on every piece, show no weakness, show you're a valuable team member and you'll get to where you need to be. Pro tip: use your intuition, and remember some teams aren't worth being part of no matter how much pressure you feel to meet your personal goals.

After I fixed the lawnmower I was quickly stepped up to fixing anything that needed fixing.

Like Dar says, show you want it, be skilled knowledgable and accurate, and it will fall into place.

Also, if you want a direct entry flying job, go to where they burn avgas in singles, you'll get pic time quicker that way (generally speaking)

[Shiny Side Up]

Yeh, how many here remember when you could fly a Navajo or any other airplane under 12,500 pounds with a check ride with a chief pilot....

Yup, as I recall those good ol' days also were when companies wouldn't hire you to fly same said clapped out navajo with less than 10,000 hours.