Another "what would you do?" question

up in the air · Post by **up in the air** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:35 am

I have just been offered a spot to start pilot training in the Airforce (this of course after the Basic Officer training and waiting periods). I have about 80 hours and was working on my CPL previous to the offer. I'm thinking eventually I would like to work for an airline, but am not 100% set on that. I realize that paralysis by analysis is not a good thing for a pilot, but I just don't know which route I should take. Any advice or insight would be greatly appreciated. [/list]

Lommer · Post by **Lommer** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:50 am

Been wrangling with that question myself for some time, and it's a pretty personal decision. Make yourself as totally informed as you can regarding the benefits, downsides, and career options afforded by either choice (there's some good threads on here if you search). Other than that it really comes down to the individual person.

2milefinal · Post by **2milefinal** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:05 pm

Airforce

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:34 pm

Are you comfortable killing people? If you say yes and can follow orders, then the Airforce is for you, if not, then civi is the way to go. Of course not all pilots in the Air Force are directly involved in killing, but who knows what the future brings, and what orders you may end up with.

Going flying for the military entails lots more than just flying the equipment, and those questions are more important than what type of aircraft you like. Think hard, it's a biggie.

stl

lyncher · Post by **lyncher** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:20 pm

well, you're still not IN, people drop out from basic and you still have to go through aircrew selections and if you fail the sim and you have a PPL you cannot reapply. I was in the same situation except I had a job flying . I decided that i didnt want to take the risk as well, as i didnt want to move around as much as those guys do. Another thing was I want to fly, thos guys get like 3 or 400 hours a year, and the rest of the time they're flying a desk.

I woiuld take the civi route.

PS I dont know if this is true but from what I've heard from a couple guys with WJ (these guys are just pilots, remember they have nothing to do with hiring) that they dont like military guys because military think they're hot shit and they cant get a grip on civi SOPs.

C-GGGQ · Post by **C-GGGQ** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:30 pm

lyncher wrote:well, you're still not IN, people drop out from basic and you still have to go through aircrew selections and if you fail the sim and you have a PPL you cannot reapply.

not entirely true, he should have done aircrew already before Basic, and if you have a license and fail you have to upgrade to the next (so no license must get private to do aircrew again, private go get commercial.) Was in a similar boat, decided being an officer wasn't for me, if you could be an NCM and a pilot i'd be on board, either way i'm flying doing what i love but everytime i go to an airshow, or watch a movie and see an F-18 I think "man i could've been flying one of those" (though i prefer the F-15:P)

just curious · Post by **just curious** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:09 pm

I'd give it a shot starting out again.

Pension, interesting work, stuff that we don't do.

If you . it at pension time, you could afford Jazz or AC's starting wages.

Flyboy757 · Post by **Flyboy757** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:01 pm

Lyncher wrote:
"PS I dont know if this is true but from what I've heard from a couple guys with WJ (these guys are just pilots, remember they have nothing to do with hiring) that they dont like military guys because military think they're hot shit and they cant get a grip on civi SOPs. "

Question Lyncher...why would you post such an insulting comment? It does not contribute a damn thing to the topic. Second hand info and you post it as a fact because you heard it from a couple of WJ pilots??!! Guess that makes it the absolute truth..eh! Were you there?

I`ve had a career in both civil and military aviation, 15,000hrs and 33 years. Any situations of "not liking" a co-worker was pure personality conflict. SOP`s can be and are interpreted differently by different folks.

Your comment only shows your ignorance to the pro`s & cons associated with military aviation.

double-j · Post by **double-j** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:40 pm

WJ has many ex-military pilots. That is a bunch of shit.

Barney · Post by **Barney** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:00 pm

Lyncher bombs again

JTFA · Post by **JTFA** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:26 pm

If you are ok with people shooting at you!

People forget that and then they have funny illnesses after they come from combat!

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:50 pm

Airforce. Training, degree, pension. Lots of the guys I worked with are ex-military and though they were the previous generation that didn't shoot at anyone (they couldn't afford bullets!) they all have pensions, which allows enormous flexibility when done.

If they want you, Airforce, definitely.

lyncher · Post by **lyncher** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:29 am

Flyboy757 wrote: Question Lyncher...why would you post such an insulting comment? It does not contribute a damn thing to the topic. Second hand info and you post it as a fact because you heard it from a couple of WJ pilots??!! Guess that makes it the absolute truth..eh! Were you there?

I`ve had a career in both civil and military aviation, 15,000hrs and 33 years. Any situations of "not liking" a co-worker was pure personality conflict. SOP`s can be and are interpreted differently by different folks.

Your comment only shows your ignorance to the pro`s & cons associated with military aviation.

Hey flyboy, calm the f*ck down bud. as i added in my post it was from pilots so take it for what its worth....... go take viagra or something...jeeze. and it did have some worth to it, I was simply adding that because, from what I've heard (now dont yell at me because this is 'second hand info' (which by the way is what 80% of what aviation is anyways)) the airlines are starting to look more towards civi guys over the mili boys.

Flyboy757 · Post by **Flyboy757** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:40 am

Lyncher.................

No need for me to calm down. Not excited by your post or reply. It simply shows that you don`t have the facts, that you rely on innuendo , rumour and second hand info. The facts plse."80% of aviation is rumour" Again, a statement with no factual evidence on your part. Just a number pulled out of the air.

Fly Safe

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:05 am

If you have been offered a position then you obviously have already been through the aircrew selection process.

The forces are real short of pilots right now and with the new Hercs and C-17's coming I suggest you seriously consider the forces route. The pay has been increased to the point that it is comparable to what you will make in the civy world and in some case it is better. Sure there are some hoops to jump but pilots are now exempt from french language training so you will bypass that and everything else is all pensionable time. You do 25 years retire with a great pension then go fly the airlines or for whoever you decide.

As far as airlines leaning toward civy over military that is pure bullshit. In fact from the people I know, and these people hold pretty high positions in various airlines, the opposite is true.

Barney · Post by **Barney** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:05 pm

Lyncher go take some Viagra and a cheese gratter and
go back to your moms basement. Dont post anymore BS till
you heal up.

lyncher · Post by **lyncher** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:57 pm

Barney wrote:Lyncher go take some Viagra and a cheese gratter and
go back to your moms basement. Dont post anymore BS till
you heal up.

I know that was against me but damn thats kinda funny

and yes flyboy i did pull that 80% outta my ass but i was using it for effect, as in aviation there are a lot of rumours aviation.

And no, the pay has not gone up drastically, unless it has in the last 2 months (which it could very well have.... I guess) Also what isnt second hand information? As CLguy said, he knows people in airlines that say mili guys are liked more than civi, there you go, more second hand information!

Lastly, Flyboy, the info I got was from the recruiter in Ottawa as well as my file consultant, yes yes I know SECOND HAND INFORMATION, but thats what I was told. So I apologize if I upset you but those are the facts as far as I know.

lyncher · Post by **lyncher** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:21 pm

anyways, UpInTheAir, its like most fo the guys said before, right now its just arguing and bitching, but what it really comes down to it, just weigh the pros and cons, My brother is in the army (not in the Air Force but kinda close to the same thing) and it sucks when he goes on tours, well sucks for us - his family, he loves it though. doesn`t want to have a family until he`s done so works out well for him.

That was my biggest problem, I want a family .... I know now Flyboy is gunna argue or someone is gunna argue that you can have a family.... ya ofcourse you can, its just not really fair - again, just my opinion.

Good Luck with your choice.

PS if you do go mili, post your adventures and let me know what I missed out on

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:53 pm

It is every pilot's duty to live as cool a life as possible to make others jealous.

That's an official ISTP quote.

Go airforce.

-istp

lyncher · Post by **lyncher** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:12 pm

Flyboy757 · Post by **Flyboy757** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:34 pm

Lyncher,
I`m not slagging you. I take offence to the "PS" in your first post. That`s it.Period.
I understand what you and what your family go thru when your brother heads out on a mission. I have transported peoples family members back to Canada....in a coffin in the belly of my airplane and sat on the flight deck during the arrival ceremonies at YTR. I do not envy you . I have 3 brothers who are cops and am relieved as hell they have all retired.

Civil and military flying both have unique challenges for all pilot skill levels. I have flown civil and military...I do not accept that one side of the profession is better than the other... they only offer different challenges. To slag one or the other is unprofessional.

Flyboy757 · Post by **Flyboy757** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:45 pm

Lyncher,

PS.......you indeed can have a family...not an argument....but it takes a very understanding lady. We celebrate 25yrs next month. Daughter grads from SFU next month as a teacher and my son from college next Apr as a professional golfer. Damn fine family. All because of the right lady.We are successful( in our eyes)because of her efforts. Now enjoying retirement and traveling in our new Motorhome....no schedule, no commitments.

Fly Safe.

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:18 pm

Lyncher wrote:

And no, the pay has not gone up drastically, unless it has in the last 2 months (which it could very well have.... I guess)

Where the hell did you get the impression I was talking about the last couple of months. I was refering to what pilots used to get paid flying in the Military compared to Civilian. No one mentioned anything about pay scales going up in the last few months.

Starting salary for a Second-Lieutenant in the Regular Officer Training Plan (ROTP) is $45,672 per year. Christ that is more than you will make starting at an airline and will already have probably 8 or more years commercial flying under your belt.

Captains make $63,972 to start and top at $95,112. Majors make $96,120 to start and top at $101,508, again like I said at least what you would make in the civilian world.

Of course besides the pay there is the 4 weeks vacation you get when you start, paid time off at Christmas etc. plus I think it is 12 additional leave days per year you are allowed as well.

Put in your 25 years and retire with 70% of your wage. Assuming you retire at top Major salary your pension would be $71k per year based on todays dollars. Start when you are 20, retired at 45!!

Up in the air, I hope this info helps you make a more informed decision since this is not second hand information.

lyncher · Post by **lyncher** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:26 pm

what about CEOTP? and read my pot again carefully, i said that it hasnt gone up drastically, as you said it did, unless you are talking in the past couple of months (I know you never said that but last time i talked to the recruiter it was the same as it is now.

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:02 pm

Better yet Lyncher, why don't you read my post again. I said it has gone up compared to what Military Pilots used to get paid. Christ can't you think back any further than 2 months. Military pilots pay used to be shit compared to what it is today!! Why the f*** is this so hard for you to grasp.

CEOTP (Continuing Education Officer Training Plan) pay as a Second-Lieutenant starts at $36,312 and tops out at $45,792. A Captain starts at $63,096 and tops out at $83,412. Majors salary starts at $85,320 and tops out at $95,688 plus all the other benefits previously mentioned. Of course you already would have known this since you apparently are in the know. I can't believe I took the time to even respond to your last post but maybe it will actually help someone make an informed decision without having their brain filled with all your useless second hand information.

Another "what would you do?" question

Another "what would you do?" question

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