What to do?

K930 · Post by **K930** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:55 am

Hi,

First post on here, but I've browsed on here for years.

I have a question about employment prospects, as it seems from everything I'm reading here and elsewhere that the industry is finally coming around.

I have about 350 hours, CPL, multi-IFR (not current) and a class IV (not current either). I'm 35 and have a decent, good $$, unchallenging 9-5 office job (bored silly with it). I started my flight training about 10 years ago, and like most people on here almost bankrupted myself getting my licenses.

I achieved my IFR and class IV shortly after 9/11 and there was NOTHING out there. I've recently started flying regularly again and REALLY have the bug again to take another crack at a career in flying.

My questions are as follows:

- Too late to "get back into it"?
- Should I renew the class IV or the multi-IFR?
- Is there anything out there for a guy with 350 hrs other than instructing?

Problems: Wife, 2 kids, mortgage, cars, etc.

I'm located in the GTA.

Any advice? Any suggestion for operators to approach? Anyone want to hire me??

Please, no juvenile resposnses.......I'd like some constructive answers if possible. PM me if you prefer.

Thanks!

Swerved · Post by **Swerved** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:22 am

It's never too late, if it's what you really want. As for whether you should renew your Class IV or your MIFR, here are some questions for you. Does your wife want to move? Does she work? If so, what does she do? How old are your kids...are they in school yet? Some of the places you can start a career (i.e. Thunder Bay) are really inexpensive. You can buy a decent house in good neighbourhood for under 100K. It's certainly not an easy road, but if you think you're going to rot away in your current job, you've got some thinking to do.

Among other things, it depends on the job from which you want to retire. Starting again at your age, you may not retire as number 1 on an airline's seniority list, but you can still have any number of good jobs that will pay the bills...

Best of luck...

Swerved.

P.S. When I ask whether or not your wife wants to move, I mean does she REALLY want to move (and support your dream), or is she just saying that? I'm not trying to be mean, but there is a HUGE difference, and a long list of people who have lived through the mess...

K930 · Post by **K930** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:30 am

Wife is willing to move if something looked promising. She works; is a nurse (ICU) and can basically get a job anywhere from what I've seen. Kids will be 1 and 3 this year, so no school yet.

I'm not so concerned about retiring #1 on a seniority list, but doing something that I enjoy and find challenging. My current occupation is okay, but I don't see myself as some office drone for the rest of my days.

Reallistically, with a renewed multi-IFR, are there prospects out there for a 350 hr. guy? Basically I just need a chance to prove myself.............

stef · Post by **stef** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:33 am

Instruct part time for fun, or rent. Don't drag your family around the country side chasing your dreams. Money is too important in your situation. If you get into flying again you'll make crap pay for years. Sorry. That's probably not what you wanted to hear.

Lommer · Post by **Lommer** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:30 am

renewing the instructor rating and then teaching at a school in the GTA on weekends and evenings is something to seriously consider. You'll maintain a decent income, your wife and kids won't have to move, and you'll start building hours at a decent rate. Many schools are really hurting for instructors now, so after a few months you might even be able to cut a deal where they renew your IFR if you agree to stay on and teach it.

abc xyz · Post by **abc xyz** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:40 pm

if your asking me i think you would be nuts to leave a good paying job to enter this biz at your age with a family. as people here have said you can fly on the side in a variety of ways to keep up with it. today everybodys hiring - as soon as the economy slows 1 iota everyone will be dropping plane orders and laying off. it may be a few years off but it will happen. just my view - i know its a hard choice (ive done it several times over the past few years.)

best of luck

Tyler

flap10 · Post by **flap10** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:51 pm

Good day K930

Me and you were in the same boat. I started at 35 in flight school with zero hours. Got my first job at 36 and its been none stop ever since. I have a wife,2 kids, car,house etc. etc. My wife is also a nurse. That was a big help. We had to do with out for a few years, but I still think its the best move I ever made. My kids at the time were 13 and 8. I think it would be easier for you because your kids are so young. Good Luck

Flap 10

DFione1 · Post by **DFione1** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:10 pm

If it makes you feel better, I'm in the same boat too. I'm not that old (24), don't have kids, have a gf who is a teacher, and a house in the Toronto area. I really want to leave my well paying job to go back to flying. I think I was meant to be in the air than on the ground. Hardest thing for me is the salary decrease. Not sure if I could afford to keep the house and the gf happy if I went back. Like other posters have suggested, I myself may get an instructor rating and teach part-time or find something part-time around here. Might be a good option for you too. I'm sure you'll make a good choice. Good luck!

lyncher · Post by **lyncher** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:12 pm

another idea is to get a share in an airplane, a lot of people seem to be doing that lately.

Turbofan · Post by **Turbofan** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:05 am

1997 quit cushy gov job and started flying C206's up north.
50% salary cut...
1000% more work...
100% job satisfaction...

Today Corporate Jet Captain. I was 33, now 43 and never looked back. I had 900hrs TT when I started.

Regards. TF

ps ...If you have a dream...go for it. If wife & family are supportive there is no excuse. You will only regret what you don't do.

Kelowna Pilot · Post by **Kelowna Pilot** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:38 am

I'm in a very similar situation to the OP. I make six figures and have a very cushy life.

While I definitely relate to the emotional draw to aviation -The Dream- the biggest concerns with going into aviation are:

1. Extremely low pay for a very long time, and the immense strain this would put on my family.

2. The industry is good now (movement wise, not salary wise). But what's going to happen in a year or two when the movement stops and the airlines start laying-off?

3. What happens after six months when the "dream" just becomes an ordinary job and you'd rather be doing something else, and all you're left with is a low paying job and maybe stuck with a psycho for a boss (there are a lot of them in aviation).

4. How do you deal with the absurdity of dealing with all the BS that aviation can dish out at you for a measly paycheck?

Family is more important than anything else. Don't frack that up for a stupid airplane. My advice is to keep your priorities straight and fly for fun.

*To all you guys who say that money isn't everything, trust me, when you have a wife and two kids, money it seems is everything. A family is one huge money drain... but it's worth it

K930 · Post by **K930** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:14 am

I really appreciate the replies, and my wife has read them too!

I think for now I will renew my class IV and see what happens. Where would I find info on fractional ownership?? I've read about it a bit in some magazines.

"Kelowna Pilot" - yep family is a HUGE money drain. Try $500/week just in daycare!! Like having a second mortgage!

v6g · Post by **v6g** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:13 am

I'm in a similar boat, currently good job in good career, wife mortgage but no kids. I'm working on my instructor rating which was going to be the first step in a career change but I'm beginning to think that maybe I'll be better placed keeping the flying (even instructing) as a hobby and continue in a lucrative career in engineering. Why? A reason that you probably won't hear about too much here but "Peak Oil". It's becoming increasingly clear that global oil production is going to peak within the next 5-10 years and enter into terminal decline. In short, it's likely that we're about to enter the second half of the oil age. Of all industries, aviation is the most reliant on cheap oil and will be the first to collapse.

It's not a pretty prediction and lots of people will say "we'll find another fuel" or "there's plenty of oil left" or (a Bush favorite) "hydrogen", but the more I look into the facts the more I think it would be a mistake to commit to aviation at this time. More than half of all oil producing countries are now in terminal decline. Only Opec countries claim to have significant proven & probable reserves left to exploit - but they've lied in the past and have good reason to do so, nor are their oil companies quoted on western stock markets where the requirements for detailed financial auditing are stringent.

Estimates of the date of peak oil vary but of the sensible ones the most pessimistic is 2010-2012 while the most optimistic puts it at about 2020. Estimates beyond that generally make extravagant assumptions or are from politicians who are good at public speaking but not much else.

I don't want to be in a dying industry at the age of 40-50 with no relevant skills and a family to feed in an economic environment of continuous global recession.

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