Canjet

rickenbacker · Post by **rickenbacker** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:29 am

CJ does indeed have a lot to offer a new pilot. CJ has great flight crews and office staff. The potential there is amazing if it just were in the right hands. The 73B is a wonderful a/c to have on your licence. It's a great introductory to the airline world. As of right now however most airlines don't require jet time anymore. There just aren't any jet qualified pilots unemployeed or looking to leave their jobs.
65% of the pilots chose other companies other than going back to CJ and there are more leaving. Some took up to $50,000 pay cuts to do so. Do you think they're all wrong????
Would you go out and buy a television or a car if 65% of the people didn't recommend it? I guess there are still some YUGO fans out there and I actually do know a couple of people that loved the LADA.
The ones staying are mostly hoping to get a few years closer to retirement before having to make that big decision of where and what to do. We all cross that point sometime at CJ. Some just sooner than others.
Once you reach a certain age and get used to a certain income and put your heart and soul into a place, it really hurts to start all over.
The east coast of canada is a great place to live in and fly from, and you will enjoy your time at CJ. Just know that you can only look 4 months down the road at a time. So keep your resume up to date, make a few contacts at the other airlines because you will need them, and hope that you don't wake up untill the 3 yr bond has expired.
Make a note of your friends with the same experience as you who have their sights on AirCanada or WestJet and see where you compare in 3 years. It'll be really painfull when you sign on and see them so much further up that old seniority list, so much further up the payscale. We all have to pay our dues just don't pay them over and over and over. That's stupid....which makes me stupid!

netty · Post by **netty** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:50 pm

...my first car was a LADA Niva. I thought it was great till the wheels almost fell off. I realized one day that I couldn't turn up the radio any louder to drown out the noise of the wheel bearings. And WOW it came with a really neat tool kit. I drove around for 4 days parking on hills after the starter went. The transmission fell apart after the trip to PEI, and then again a few months after that...but I thought it was so cool!! The spring on the throttle broke just before going thru the toll bridge on the McKay - I had to pull over and unwind it to put it back together. 106km per hour on the nose and my change cup would shake so I knew I wouldn't get a speeding ticket. There was a hole in the front bumper for a crank...and when the wipers got wet they stopped working...the dealer's response was "but it only happens when they get wet".

...great memories. Glad it's gone.

I sold it to a russian. Pretty much stuck on Honda now. They're pretty good. I always know what I'm getting. No more crappy cars.

eastdude · Post by **eastdude** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:15 pm

I think when you look back at a lot of the posts there wasn't anything really to bad said about the training. Most people I think that went throught the training had great things to say about it. Well paced, easy going, mostly fair, generally a good bunch of people envolved. Its the other stuff.

1 no real scheduling rules, ok you can say they are there but the company has in the past bent those all to hell. Remember the 8 days off for month's or no weekends for a long time.
2 offering direst entry captains a signing bonus
3 no dental at all
4 no vision, hey new east coast pilot ask anyone in upper management where the compnay will be in 5 years or even 6 months, wait until you hear those answers, will make you wonder. Actually ask then what the company vision statement is. to be canada's low fare leader, yeah ok.
5 fighting the CJPA and ALPA most of the way, from FLying Forward Fairly (ask about that one) to not recalling the pres of the CJPA for a completely bullshit reason and everyone knows it.
i could go on and on

Bottom line is that A LOT of good people worked there and alot have left. there are still good folks there and the guys and gals that you will work with are great people. The problem is the parent company and some in management. They ask you to give them a 3 year 30000 committment and can only offer you in return a a 4-6 month future that will have to be renewed. Not saying it won't be renewed but there is a chance it won't. You'll have a blast flying with most of the people and it is a great plane to fly.Stay if you like it ( some have) but based on the past history of this company if another opporunity seriously look into it thats all.

Stick-Shaker · Post by **Stick-Shaker** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:08 pm

Netty: Great post! Point taken. Agreed.

EastCoastPilot: Remember that 30 large is a tether to a sinking ship. You can't jump early even though you may see the water line getting higher. Because if you do jump early, your 30K stays with the ship. But if remain loyal and hang around until the end, you won't lose your 30K, but you may be scrambling for a job when they may not be as plentyful.

athcyroz · Post by **athcyroz** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:20 pm

I do not post on these sites but I think it imortant to set the record straight.

Canjet is a good airline with good people but that is the extent of its charm. It has nothing more than down east warmth and hospitality. The "Good People" have been exploited and will continue to be used until the owners can no longer wring any more useful life out of them.

As much as I would like to see the "Good People" thrive in a Halifax based Airline... it will not happen with the current setup. The support of the employee group is crucial in the airline business if you really want to capture market in a very competitive industry. IMP has no employee support. Being one of the top "50" best managed companies means that you count nickels better than your counterpart, it does not mean you use those nickels better! (BTW that "50 Best" distinction is bought rather than earned). The employees have been and will be subject to substandard working conditions and pay scales.

Is there a future for Canjet?

The future of Canjet may be open to debate but the fact remains that if they do survive the "Good People" that work there will always be at the bottom of the salary and benefit scale. They will never be a leader, in any category, beause to lead means commitment,and commitment costs money... even if the payoff is signifigant, it is too much of a risk for IMP.

The management group at this little carrier is nothing more than a sham.

Training at CJ took 7 years to get to where they are today,which is comparable to most carriers, only after some guidance and some growing pains(there has been a lot of personal horn blowing on this site by the training manager"JTF" (1st jet BTW)).

You need Pilots to fly aircraft and canjet is losing Pilots in droves... yet the DFO seems to think that this is normal attrition. This company needs a DFO that will stand up for the Pilots.

KW is the best thing to hit the streets in a while. Lets hope they give him some latitude. He can do great things if they give him the keys to the IMP hand cuffs.

Canjet needs some a complete paradigm shift and the powers that be will never let that happen. They are muddled in a management that is more concerned about personel preservation than the good off the company.

Best Wishes to all that choose to make Canjet a home. Please Don't start picking out any curtains!!!!!

Just the facts · Post by **Just the facts** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:34 am

athcyroz said

Training at CJ took 7 years to get to where they are today,which is comparable to most carriers, only after some guidance and some growing pains(there has been a lot of personal horn blowing on this site by the training manager"JTF" (1st jet BTW)).

You know, I was taxiing in YHM one day and made one of my welcome aboard speeches, and I got a comment card from a pax who said the captain was annoyingly cheerful. Oh well, that's who I am and that's my nature.

The training program I have been involved with for 7 years. We, meaning the DFO, CP, SO, CCP's, Ops instructors and myself have collaborated to develop, review, test, redevelop and re-test that program to get it to where it is. Our training cycle ensures our guys and gals get exposure to relavant major aircraft problems which can occur or that have occurred at other carriers. We have a scripted training syllabus and approved PPC scripts. The aim of all of this was to ensure an objective training environment that builds skills, confidence and produces high standard captains and fo's. It's not perfect but I think its pretty good. So do most of the crews and TC. If because I am proud of the training we do; that we are caring about pilots in the training environment..then I guess I am guilty of "blowing my horn, as it were".

I am not sure what the point of the "1st jet, BTW" comment was, however, for what its worth, I have been flying and teaching this "1st jet" for 7 years.

In any event, since you have decided to "out" me with the JTF/Training Mgr link/reference, I will use my name. A pseudonym is pointless now and this will be my last post. I note you were not kind enough to leave your name so I could thank you personally.

So, .....it sounds like you have left us. I do wish you well with your career and hope you retire a wide body skipper somewhere.

Good luck to you, and all the guys and gals who have moved on. You are all missed.

Jim McMullin

Old fella · Post by **Old fella** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:04 pm

Well.......... nice touchy, feel good story and I am delighted for you. But as a vacationer( I do a few), it will be Air Canada and second choice West Jet for me and many others I know We are just not interested nor willing to risk any bucks/aggravation with the latest (Vista) version of CJ, especially after the previous version collapses.

Good luck to you but it won’t be on my dime!!!!!!!!!!

flyin' fish · Post by **flyin' fish** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:27 am

Old fella, you're still thinking that people are actually paying attention to the carrier that's taking them down south. If people were actually concerned about the financial health of CanJet, then the planes wouldn't full every single leg, except for the ferry flights of course. You book a vacation with Transat Vacations or Sunquest................not CanJet. Rowe cannot simply shut the airline down again and strand passengers down south like what happened with Jetsgo and C3. It'll put all his others divisions at risk.

Are things getting better? Yes, but slowly. IMP is like a abusive alcoholic spouse, where the road to recovery is a long one. Dental plan is the way, so is pref bidding on the schedule. The contract is getting closer, but road to recovery is a long one. Some guys, not the ones pushing for retirement soon, don't want to leave simply because the schedule has been good.

Good luck to those who have left, are leaving or staying.

flyin' fish · Post by **flyin' fish** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:29 am

800+ posts..............cool

Old fella · Post by **Old fella** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:23 pm

Old fella, you're still thinking that people are actually paying attention to the carrier that's taking them down south. If people were actually concerned about the financial health of CanJet, then the planes wouldn't full every single leg, except for the ferry flights of course............

Yes sir, that is quite true but for those who do not pay attention, there are some who do believe me. Look.......... I have been in this business (aviation) close to 35 yrs and am always asked for my opinion/views by my many acquaintances on various aviation related topics. I give my opinions with the caveat, it is “just my opinion cause I am no expert and there are many better qualified than me”. I am always asked would you fly with…., is it better to go with………. You get the drift. I tell people all Canadian carriers have an exemplary safety record and CJ’s is as good as Air Canada, no question. But, if you are saving your bucks every 2-3 years to take yourself and the lady down south island hopping /cruise/all inclusive you do not want any surprises especially 1-2 months before departure time. This has happened to CJ/JetsGO/Canada 3000 etc but not with Air Canada/Westjet/Jazz etc and I stop the conversation at that point………………

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:57 pm

In no way do I think CanJet is unsafe, in any way shape or form.

But comparing CanJet's safety record to Air Canadas is not really relavent.

You can't even compare WestJet to Air Canada.

When you consider how many more million passenger miles Air Canada has flown than both combined.

That being said if WestJet/CanJet were to continue in their practices to date I'm sure the numbers will one day be comparable.

Duck Dogers · Post by **Duck Dogers** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:15 am

I've been reading this site for awhile now and I'm sure I'll get flack for my lack of posts, but we all have to start somewhere.

My post is really directed towards JTF. I did have the chance to meet you years ago at another local airport in the metro area. It's nice to read positve comments about any airline instead of the tripe that infests this site. I'm not sure why people feel the need to inject a negative attitude at every turn. I understand your desire to see CJ do well and respect your professional attidue by not allowing yourself to be swayed by some of the disgruntled CJ or ex CJ folks.

Eastcoast Pilot, good luck to you and enjoy your new job!

DD

capt. poopy pants · Post by **capt. poopy pants** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:09 pm

i worked for canjet at one time ,and they treated me very good. guess i got out at the right time.

netty · Post by **netty** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:11 pm

I think that the issue is that when we are treated well, or treated poorly by a company we take it personally. When we do a good job or go the extra mile we also take it personally and somehow feel we should be rewarded. The reality is the opposite. You can dedicate your whole life to work, you can come on this forum and try to say positive things or say negative things and none of it matters. In the end it is business.

capt. poopy pants · Post by **capt. poopy pants** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:08 pm

yo ho netty
you are correct,it is just business and thats why people should keep their emotions out of it. we get paid to fix aircraft and do so in a safe manner, unfortunatly,the pollitics of it

is too much and the ladder climbers are enough to make a navy seal puke. so forget the "pat on the back" crap and go home at the end of your shift knowing you did the job right and the ones flying it will make it home aswell.

Stick-Shaker · Post by **Stick-Shaker** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:23 pm

I heard that the training dept at CJ is putting an NG course together. Is there a new bird coming to the nest?

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:26 am

Stick-Shaker wrote:I heard that the training dept at CJ is putting an NG course together. Is there a new bird coming to the nest?

IMP is buying Sunwing

SPOT · Post by **SPOT** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:16 am

737-800 x 2

flyin' fish · Post by **flyin' fish** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:53 am

Doubt that, last I heard was a wet lease for the winter............to see how the aircraft "worksout"

SPOT · Post by **SPOT** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:42 am

Not a wet lease, but yeah just for the winter.

Kandoo · Post by **Kandoo** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:46 pm

Sounds like a huge expense to undertake for a trial period of one winter season if it’s not a wet lease.

Old fella · Post by **Old fella** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:06 am

Wet Lease or wet dream!! If one got a dime for every rumor/idea the "Vista Home Premium" version of CJ(as well as the other two or three ver.) spouted...........

Stick-Shaker · Post by **Stick-Shaker** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:15 pm

Whats going on? How can this operator continue to keep pilots on the payroll, and hire a few newbees?

I know from a few I have spoken to, that CJ pilots are getting 14+ days off, 9 days of work, and a balance of reserve days that you never get called out on.

Aircraft are more or less based in upper Canada, and crews are DH'd back and fro (generally only on weekends).

A smell something.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:34 pm

Getting a 737NG on a pilots license wouldn't be something some guys on turboprops with WestJet aspirations wouldn't want to do?

flyin' fish · Post by **flyin' fish** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:51 pm

Well this summer has been the best one I've had in years. The lawn is taken care of and there's tons of time for the beach. All a part of the business plan they say.
This winter, I'm sure we'll all be alot more busy. The NG rumour is still just a possible wet lease this winter. Nothing more.
Times are good.......for now.