cpt sweet'njuicy wrote:.....if you will do drugs ...you will rape children...lob grenades into a nursary same to me...
Exaggeration
1.To represent as greater than is actually the case; overstate: exaggerate the size of the enemy force; exaggerated his own role in the episode.
2.To enlarge or increase to an abnormal degree.
...breaking the law is breaking the law...
Hypocrisy
1.The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
2.An act or instance of such falseness.
Hypocrite
a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he does not hold .
What happens when they legalize it? Will it be ok then? Do the pilots of Air Jamaica smoke it? Isn't it legal there?
TC once told my class that if you plan on having an accident, make sure you haven't smoked the night before. But it is in your system for atleast 30days
Wheather it was an icy R/W, A/C problems, etc. If you have that stuff in your system, TC is gonna put the blame on you when you have an accident for that reason.
We are professionals. We have peoples lives in our hands. We owe it to our PAX, PAX family, PAX childern, our familys, friends familys to fly as safe as possible.
As far as CPT S&J, some of your views are kinda wack. But I do agree that pot has no place in the professional aviation industry.
Textbook...I don't think it is legal anywhere on the planet, it is however decriminalized in many places. Decriminalization is being talked about in Canada but if and when that occurs all it means is that you will not be charged with a "crime" you will be issued what is effectivley a ticket. Driving under the influence will still be a crime...
The key and common sense is; do not fly under the influence of any mind altering substance; be it weed, booze or lack of rest. If it takes 36 hours for a certain drug to leave your system, wait 36 hours. If it takes 30 days, wait 30 days. Do what you want on your own time. If you play hard you work hard, with integrity and respect for the law.
Bottom line is, as mentioned earlier, if you ever f#$k up a landing, taxi into a G-V's wings, etc while under the influence, you can kiss your hard earned career goodbye....Not to mention travel/ border crossing hassles in the future etc.
Fly Safe
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...Seems they are going to remove the axe and the control column from the cockpits for security reasons.
cpt sweet'njuicy wrote:.......I cant stand abusers..its a sign of shallow personalities and weakness of character... People who need to change their personna with substances are weak..this is a fact...
It sounds to me like you're talking about people who have an addiction to a substance. I was under the impression that this discussion was referring to pilots who occasionally, in their down time, enjoy relaxing with a couple of beers and perhaps a joint.
If indeed you are referring to people addicted to a substance, then your 'fact' is quite incorrect. Addiction is a disease and is in no way an indication of 'shallow personalities and weakness of character.' Ask any medical professional, or do some research, or even watch TV from time to time and you'll discover that. You should take my previous advice and you really should know what you're talking about when making such harsh criticisms and not try to pass off your opinions as facts. Although..... .......you do sound like you'd know a thing or two about a shallow personality.
Redwine wrote:.......The key and common sense is; do not fly under the influence of any mind altering substance; be it weed, booze or lack of rest. If it takes 36 hours for a certain drug to leave your system, wait 36 hours. If it takes 30 days, wait 30 days....
I wholeheartedly agree that no one should fly while impaired, but there is a difference between the amount of time THC stays in your system and the amount of time it affects your ability to function normally. I've heard different numbers ranging from 2 weeks to 6 months that it can be detected in your system, but it is ridiculous to think that 2 weeks after smoking a joint you can't safely drive a car or fly an airplane or do whatever else it is you want to do. Don't believe me? Try it Yes, it may still be in your system, and should you bend an airplane and get tested, you could be f*cked, but that's the risk you take if you chose to smoke.
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Last edited by shimmydampner on Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
CANNABIS. The cannabis constituent that produces the high is called Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (Delta-9-THC, widely known as THC.)
Delta-9-THC enters the bloodstream rapidly after smoking (in minutes) or more slowly when ingested orally (20 minutes to 1.5 hours). It is rapidly metabolised into inert molecules known as metabolites. These chemicals also have the word Tetrahydrocannabinol in them and are called THC, which can be quite confusing.
Delta-9-THC is detectable in the blood for a few hours, but none of this active chemical is found in the urine or stored in the fatty tissues such as the liver and brain.
What is frequently described as THC's lingering in the body fluids and organs are metabolites of Delta-9-THC, the inert substances that the body disposes of in the urine and excrement, in much the same way as it disposes with Vitamin A. It is these that are detected in the body organs and urine, long after the effects of Delta-9-THC have worn off.
These metabolites can linger more than 90 days in some cases. For occasional users, an average of 13 days was recorded. Some people had metabolites detectable for just three days; others found the substances still in the urine after up to 29 days.
But a positive body fluid or hair test for cannabis does not mean that the person was under the influence of the substance, or impaired in any way at the time the specimen was collected. All it tells the tester is that the person may or may not have ingested cannabis in the recent past.
Any pilot who uses illegal drugs and has any ambition to fly anything cross border is an absolute moron. Who in their right mind would put their career at risk for the sake of smoking an occasional joint? Agree or disagree with the law; it doesn't matter because neither the cops, customs, or judge will be asking your opinion.
Smoking pot is a crime, sure, but it is a victimless one, provided you keep it to yourself and don't do anything stupid that would endanger anyone else.
Victimless? Buying dope, no matter if it's pot, crack, E, or whatever, fuels the drug dealing system that creates countless victims. So unless you are growing it during your duty rest, it is far from victimless.
But then again, burned out pot-heads see the world in a whole different way, and I suppose that it's hard to see through a haze of smoke.
cpt sweet'njuicy wrote:
if you are a piece of shit as a human being...then you are a piece of shit all year round no matter where you go or whether you are at work or not..
So, then I guess there is no chance of you changing then is there?
CS&J: I acknowledge your right to express your opinion, but that is all it is. Your opinion. And looking at your history of posts, I see that you constantly take your own opinion to be generally accepted fact. I don't want to make this thread into something about CS&J, but it needs to be said that I think the majority of people don't give a sh*t about what you have to say. It is hard to believe that you actually hold these values. I think to be that offensive and narrow minded you must be just trying to stir shit up.
anyways, IMHO, the occasional use when away from flying (like on vacation) shouldn't be cause for any punitive action. Sure, with the airlines, they have an image to maintain. so if they or any other company want to make certain rules, well then fine, as long as employees are made aware of them before agreeing to terms.
And just because you are breaking the law does not group one into the general group of evil criminals. Alcohol was prohibited at one point as well. I steer clear of the MJ myself, but definitely enjoy a couple of beers after a long day. For those who like the odd smoke, if you keep it completely away from your work responsibilities, and only smoke occasionally, i don't see a problem.
Capn SnJ... I think it's telling that you equate occasional marijuana use with "drug abuse"... That you've never tried it is a credit to you, just as it is to one who's never had any alcohol, but those two examples are the comparison that fits more than any other "drug"... (and most would argue marijuana is far less harmful than alcohol... it certainly causes far fewer bar room brawls, examples of wife abuse, and wreckless driving, and unlike alcohol, it's not adictive.)
"Drug users" are not all equal, as you'd have us believe... There's a far cry between the guy who kicks back with a joint once in a while, and the guy who needs his daily fix of coke or heroin.
cpt sweet'njuicy wrote:...who i am now...no booze, no smoking..no drugs..no women....and as one F/O just commented to me in the plane the other day..no fun...(
You give a good image of the type of person you are. You do paint a picture of yourself being a stuck up, tight fisted (most likely ham-fisted) anal-retentive pilot who no one in your company enjoys to fly with, or to be around. You've judged pretty much everyone on here without meeting them, and I'd hate to see how you'd judge the co-pilot who asks you if he can buy you a beer after work one day. Judging, my friend, will create more victims than weed ever could, making it an unpunishable crime with far worse effects. How does it feel to be the proprietor of such a crime? But I digress... I got into aviation because its fun. I have fun flying, and so do the people I fly with, and the people I hang around with. I don't judge them, they don't judge me. I follow the rules, and I don't smoke weed, just like you, S & J. But I think nothing of those who choose to. Its no different than beer or cigarettes, other than the fact that the government just hasn't yet come up with a way to tax it. Its natural, unlike the majority of food that you presumably shovel into your fat face. It sounds like you could use some weed or a glass of scotch. You'll find that it won't make you a bad person, and that your personna will remain in tact. You probably just need to get laid! You probably spend so much time following rules that you've forgotten why you got into this industry. Actually, why did you get into this industry? If you're not having fun, then why even be here? To make everyone else's lives miserable? Perhaps you should take a walk and offer yourself some inward reflection, my friend. You'll find that you'll enjoy your job more, and perhaps you might even find yourself a friend. Lord knows that guys like you don't have any. And if you re-read all your posts before your session of inner reflection, and if you are really the type of person that you indicate that you are, you might figure out why.
I don't think anyone here could argue that tobacco and alcohol, which are certainly addictive drugs, exact a terrible toll in North America, in terms of direct and indirect human suffering and incredible health care costs. We're talking in the neighborhood of a trillion dollars - that's a million billions - of damage done.
So, why are tobacco and alcohol legal, children?
No one has ever adequately explained to me why some addictive and harmful drugs are legal and others are not, but perhaps I'm just the sharpest knife in the drawer. I don't have the politically correct "big picture" in view.
It's all about what one chooses to do, the issue is not if it is addictive or an illness, in the case of using pot it is illegal and should you ever get caught your career in aviation will get to be very limited.
Not to mention you will never, never be allowed to even visit the USA for one country.
I agree that alcohol is a far more destructive drug and causes far, far more misery in society but using it is not illegal therefore on a legal level will not affect your flying career.
It is quite simple, don't use it if you want to fly for a living.
Cat
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
I have to think that if anyone from TC were on this board or for that matter, owners, that they must be looking at this and saying to themselves hmmmmm.
Maybe if it was the first time that this topic has come to light on this board you could write it off to sh!t disturbing, but it's not.
Bottom line is if you choose to do any street drugs regardless of if you are on your own time or not then you are taking a risk with your career and your health. Do you really think that the person that is selling you that drug on the street corner cares about what is actually in what your buying, russian roulette really. It is really no different than drinking except that ETOH is a legal drug but get into an accident or randomly checked with it in your system your equally hooped.
All I can say is for you users out there, grow up. You want a drug induced euphoric reaction, go climbing, hang gliding, white water rafting, whatever. You'll spend about the same money and adrenaline is quite the rush.
I can't believe I'm posting on this subject, but oh well..
I've always had a problem with people that can't live life without resorting to legal or illegal substances, but before someone bites my head off THAT'S JUST MY OPINION!!!!!
I agree with bandaid. I have much better and productive things to do with my time.. fly fishing being one. Out in the trees on a cold stream, nobody else around.. that's my high.
I also agree with ... if you plan on making a living in aviation, clean up. I guess I hope that mandatory drug testing for pilots becomes reality here in Canada as it is with most (if not all) companies in the US. Society for the most part views pilots as professionals - be one.
ONCE AGAIN THIS IS MY OPINION - I am not out to force it on anyone.
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Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace. The soul that knows it not,knows no release from the little things; knows not the livid loneliness of fear, nor mountain heights where bitter joy can hear the sound of wings.
- Amelia Earhart
The discussion prompted me to think about some things,
If I were to find out that some pilot I knew smoked pot, I would probably do one of two things:
-If that pilot happens to be a friend, or someone I have no reason to believe has a bad nature, I might try and talk them into stopping. Should that work (it has for me five years ago, way before I even thought of flying as a career), odds are that I would leave it at that.
-If that pilot has been an all-around asshole towards me (some names come up to my mind as I write this) then he's busted. And I'd make pretty sure he never knew where it came from.
Yeah, it's a double standard. I know I can only gain so much satisfaction from their demise, but there are some things I will NEVER be able to completely put behind. Put this way, my reasonning probably sounds faulty, but I'd rather keep to myself the arguments that would give it strength.
Those who argue that smoking pot is a victimless crime have it almost completely wrong. The only instance I can come up with where it would be probably victimless would be a loner who pays all his bills with a legitimate source of income (even healthcare costs caused by his smoking habit), does no other crime, has no one under his care or to set an example for and grows his own ganja. And of course, there would have to be no one to breathe second hand smoke.
Gang wars that leave countless innocent victims happen all over the world, and are for the most part fueled by a combat for domination of the lucrative drug trade. And I'm not taking into account the sidelines these dealers might have, such as prostitution, money laundering and extortion, which leave additionnal victims and costs to society.
Legalization might take out some of the victims out of the equation and bring it to levels closer to alcohol and tobacco, and I'm not completely against the idea. One advantage is that people who do choose to use could do so with a clearer conscience. But because of its lingering effects, we, as pilots, are not to be part of this group. Legal or not, I strongly support testing to enforce this. While I won't get into the details of this hypothetical scenario, I would suggest to implement very harsh sentences to anyone caught attempting to export, in order to keep the americans quieter about our policies.
Pot is not always "natural" as some would like to think: like legitimate farmers, drug growers and dealers do genetic modifications and crossbreeding too. Think of an underground, uncontrolled and uncontrollable Monsanto with even less ethics and you're getting close to what we have here.
Luckily for me, turns out stopping was almost easy. I'd say that it was in my case for a few reasons:
-This drug causes little or no physical addiction. This means a combination of psychological and environmental factors are at play, both of which you can have some control over.
-I had other interests and activities in life.
-My environment didn't have a "strong drug culture". So it wasn't constantly around me, nor the single most talked about topic of conversation in my day, unlike those I smoked with. (keep on reading...)
-I had some limits as to when I smoked, and made them clear to those I smoked with (peer pressure wasn't much of a problem with these guys) and stuck to them: never did at school, nor if I had school the following day. I did slip once: I took one puff (litterally) on a lunch break to prove to some guys back in high school I actually knew how to smoke, as I was too clean cut and well behaving for them to believe me.
-I started to notice trends sending the three others I was usually smoking with on dangerous, downhill paths. One just barely got his high school diploma through a special class, now working a dead end part-time job, one dropped out of high school for three years and is now studying at a trade school, the last one got into harder drugs and last I heard, got into detox after a short stint as a gay prostitute. These guys didn't have an easy start in life compared to mine, but it doesn't really excuse their behavior nor mine.
I regularly thought about marijuana in the first few weeks after stopping, but I'd say that was in part due to the fact I had been exposed to the whole community, culture and language there is around pot for some time, not completely unlike the one around other hobbies and activities, such as the world of aviation we live in. It progressively got out of my mind over time and I feel no need to go back to it since many years now. Not to say those times were boring, but the price to pay would have gotten increasingly expensive over time, and I feel I've grown beyond these habits, having better things to do with my life.
Long story short, I'd rather fly high than get high.
Not too bad for your second post, FTHC2CHT. There is something to be said for life experince. I'm glad to see that you have made better decisions in your life rather than falling into the trend of the times. Sorry to hear about your friends. Maybe someday they too will find something that makes them want to change their lives.
Cheers
Congrats on the eradication of that crap from your life!
I too had a "group" that I hung with in high school - I had been in school with one of the guys since grade 2. I'm sure he is living in a box in downtown Calgary somewhere, his life was on a downward spiral last time I heard about him and it hadn't stopped yet.
Your post is very well composed and literate IMO. Well said.
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Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace. The soul that knows it not,knows no release from the little things; knows not the livid loneliness of fear, nor mountain heights where bitter joy can hear the sound of wings.
- Amelia Earhart
fromTHCtoCHT wrote:Those who argue that smoking pot is a victimless crime have it almost completely wrong. The only instance I can come up with where it would be probably victimless would be a loner who pays all his bills with a legitimate source of income (even healthcare costs caused by his smoking habit), does no other crime, has no one under his care or to set an example for and grows his own ganja.
I really hope you've never used EI to further yourself in your Aviation Career..
Because those scumbags are just as bad as those blowing smoke!
But I do agree that pot has no place in the professional aviation industry.
Yes, it may still be in your system, and should you bend an airplane and get tested, you could be f*cked, but that's the risk you take if you chose to smoke.
