Hercules Water conversions

[2R]

How feasable would it be to have the CF Hercules fitted for another role as water bomber /fire suppresant while still retaining it other roles ???

[Driving Rain]

http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/aviation/fixe ... index.html

[2R]

Wow that is a great bit of kit !!!

How many do the CF have ???

[Driving Rain]

Wow that is a great bit of kit !!!

How many do the CF have ???

The CF have none. It's not as good as they make it sound. The coverage levels are piss poor from that system and the military are not adapt at fire suppression. At least that's the case in the USA.

Long term retardent works well when that's your only choice. It has to be put down at good coverage levels and by crews that are highly skilled in fire suppression.
In areas like the Canadian shield with numerous lakes and rivers water bombers are the way to go. One of the problems with long term as Ontario found out in the 70's was the stuff acts as a fertilizer and around some lakes where large quantities were applied the spring run offs took it in to them and killed everything.
This isn't so much a problem out west where the rivers flow fast and the effects can be diluted.
In the US missed targets and direct hits with the stuff in some rivers made large fish kills
http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/habi ... /intro.htm

[2R]

Any chance that the 415 appearing in CF colours ???

Night vision googles and huds ???

[WJflyer]

How feasable would it be to have the CF Hercules fitted for another role as water bomber /fire suppresant while still retaining it other roles ???

Not feasible. CF Hercs are high time birds. They have a lot of hours on them, and we are running them into the ground literally. The C-17's will help take the load off the CF Herc fleet so that they can last till 2010, when hopefully, the new C-130J's arrive.

The critical fatigue component for the C-130 fleet is the center wing box, which is structurally more susceptible to the stresses of mission profile and payload. The center wing box has a limit of 60,000 relative baseline hours (flight hours multiplied by the mission severity factor).) A corrosion limit of 40,000 flight hours is based on historical data and engineering judgment. It considers corrosion factors not considered in airframe fatigue analysis. Actual airframe service life depends on which limit, fatigue or corrosion, is reached first. Right now, 2 of our birds have already 'timed out', and are no longer safe to fly. They have been grounded and cannibalized for spare parts.

There is a danger flying Hercs on such stressful missions so close to max airframe life; the Americans have already lost a Herc during a water bombing run a few years back that was traced to the failure of the center wing box. The wings literally snapped off the airframe.

[North Shore]

Any chance that the 415 appearing in CF colours ???

Sure, but, why? Look at guys like Driving Rain, CLguy and just duckie - they've been flying tankers for years, and floats for years before that. While I'm sure that the CF has excellent training, it can't make up for hundreds/thousands of hours in a fire environment, and the concomitant water work. Sure you could put CF guys in there for their 2 year tour, but your capability as a fire fighting force is going to decline as is your safety...

[ScudRunner]

So why would the Airforce need fire suppresion?

[32a]

So why would the Airforce need fire suppresion?

Guess because the Air National Guard augments the firefighters in USA, some see the CF doing the same in Canada.

In Canada, the CF does provide aid to other government agencies - upon request. For example this spring, there was a large military contingent ready to support gov't agencies in case of major flooding in BC's lower mainland.

In the case of forest fires, I'd suggest Canada already has a very capable firefighting system already in place. It's highly unlikely the Air Force would ever be called to drop fire suppression in Canada. On the other hand, the Air Force evacuating people from forest fire areas - when other air transport is not available - is almost a regular annual requirement.

[2R]

It is all about the "What ifs'"


Let us just say that any enhancement to the military ability to provide Civil Defense would be a good thing.If a situation like Greece where to happen here the tankers would be overwhelmed .And people would be saying why did the government not take the steps to protect us.Even though protection from professional arsonists is difficult if not impossible.

The effectiveness of the incediary balloons launched from Japanese subs against North America in WW2 was greatly downplayed in the newspapers.Or a panic could have occured .
Anyway who is to say that those arsonists could not turn up in water short Tofino for their holidays .

[Driving Rain]

It is all about the "What ifs'"


Let us just say that any enhancement to the military ability to provide Civil Defense would be a good thing.If a situation like Greece where to happen here the tankers would be overwhelmed .And people would be saying why did the government not take the steps to protect us.Even though protection from professional arsonists is difficult if not impossible.

The effectiveness of the incediary balloons launched from Japanese subs against North America in WW2 was greatly downplayed in the newspapers.Or a panic could have occured .
Anyway who is to say that those arsonists could not turn up in water short Tofino for their holidays .

I'm not saying a situation like Greece couldn't happen here but lets face it the Greeks have the most ineffective wild fire control on the planet. The wild fire personel are basically pressed into service. Many don't want to be there. Their tanker ops are joke. They've crashed so many 215's and 415's over the years the Greek press call them the Canadian Flying Coffins of Death. Bottom line you get what you pay for. They refused Canadian help at the beginning of the crisis in early August, a decision that cost them dearly. Later, they originally asked not for Canadain tankers but Canadian tanker pilots only to fly their tankers. Their pilots were flying 12 hours a day fighting fire. That's something that isn't allowed here at any time.
Canada is blessed with co-operative provincial governments and have agreements in place that each province will give aid to the others in time of emergency. A good case in point was Ontario enjoyed the luxury of having 50 water bombers in the province last year in one prolonged fire flap. Europe has no such agreement. National pride gets in the way as the Greeks will find out once all the dust settles.

[ScudRunner]

This is what im getting at every year there is some hot spot in Canada and tankers from the other provinces or territory's are sent out to help fight. In extreme fire situations like BC in 2003, Every availible tanker and army personel from across the country were in the fight. if the CF had tanker capability would provinces have there own fire supression services or just call Ottawa when it got bad enough to save a few bucks. You can sleep easy knowing that pro's with tons of time and experiance are on the job.

[2R]

The 415 crews do strike me as some of the most professional crews i have met . Watching them hit a fire is one of the best airshows you will ever see.A kind of aerial ballet .Although we should not call it that or they make them wear tutu's Pink for girls blue for boys

And it is nice to see planes from different provinces in Canada working together when there is a crisis .The first time i saw a Quebec 415 in NWONT i thought 'ALLO ALLO'but there was none of that political crap Just another Canadien crew helping another Canadian crew get the job done to the benefit of all Canada.