Upgrade Times

Mach75 · Post by **Mach75** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:05 am

How long does it currently take to upgrade to captain at Westjet?

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:51 pm

Making 95- 105K by the end of year 3... WHO CARES!

express · Post by **express** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:29 pm

that's misleading...year three F.O. pay is 78,000. ESP/Stock Options don't fall under the category of Salary IMO. Now id you're talking Total compensation...the formentioned number is fairly accurate.

WJ700 · Post by **WJ700** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:13 pm

express wrote:that's misleading...year three F.O. pay is 78,000. ESP/Stock Options don't fall under the category of Salary IMO. Now id you're talking Total compensation...the formentioned number is fairly accurate.

The ESP is included in that post (up to 32K per year) but the options are not in that figure.

Currently, of 4 option sets, two of mine are vested and worth money now, and that will go on top of the salary and aprreciated ESP. The ESP has also gone up considerably.

So if we're talking 'total compensation' my year three would be more like 140K now

Mach75 · Post by **Mach75** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:23 am

I appreciate the replies & I agree that those are some good figures but - is anyone out there able to give me a ball-park estimate of time to upgrade for new-hires?

WJ700 · Post by **WJ700** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:54 am

Mach75 wrote:I appreciate the replies & I agree that those are some good figures but - is anyone out there able to give me a ball-park estimate of time to upgrade for new-hires?

Sorry, I was sidetracked. I was looking at the list and estimate only 15-20 retirements of the 800 in the next ten years.

We have 68 aircraft and 42 more ordered, with a demand announced in a recent news release for 8 more above that number (118 total). At 50 more aircraft, the fleet will not double.

So my layman's 'guess', is 12 years.

However, a publicly traded airline 'must' expand to create investor interest... so I assume it could be less. WestJet has always undersold and over delivered on my expectations... and I'm a pessimist by nature.

chief · Post by **chief** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:43 am

Hey there M.75. I was hired last year August and the management back then said about 4-5 years. I am not sure what the time is now. I dont think going by just number of aircraft in the fleet is the sole way to predict the upgrade time. It is one way of guestimating but we may end up utilizing the aircraft more as well. I am not sure what the average hours/day on the aircraft are but if it jumps from 12-16 hours/day that is going to require 25% more pilots right there. Some will retire as well. If I bump into Paul the next few days I will ask him what the prediction is these days.

WJ700 · Post by **WJ700** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:31 am

Keep in mind I'm trying to be very conservative too.

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:57 am

I think 8 years is pretty realistic.

express · Post by **express** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:27 pm

if you got hired recently or in the next few months count on a minimum of 5-7 years.

...and total compensation is still not the same as salary, although I agree that those figures are accurate.

Ryan Coke2 · Post by **Ryan Coke2** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:04 pm

But the money still spends just as well.....

WJ700 · Post by **WJ700** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:22 pm

Well.... I think a fleet still has to 'almost' double, take away a few retirements. When I started, they had about 35 aircraft. Now it's 68. I upgraded this summer.

C-MNOP · Post by **C-MNOP** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:45 am

Dont forget the wonderful house prices in Calgary!!! $95,000 for a three year F/O, who cares??? Well if your a single guy living with a couple other buddies at 30 years old that might be great, but with a family it really sucks. A house now costs $450,000 for a starter home! You need to make $100,000 a year just to keep up. So after stock options and salary for the first two years a person actually has gone backwards because he wouldnt be able to afford a house. Like the rest of you Im just chasing a dream!

Just keep Smilin'!

Duster · Post by **Duster** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:16 am

So buy a house in Winnipeg or Ottawa or Halifax or Moncton ?!

mattski52 · Post by **mattski52** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:17 am

You should not worry so much about time to upgrade when considering employment at WJ. It will come. The fact is that its a great place to work, the pay is OK, and the schedule will be great right from the start. You don't need to wait 10 years to get the days off you need or whatever it might be....you will get that in your first month. But if you can't get past upgrade time....right now based on my crappy mathematics we have 11.76 pilots per airplane. Look for that to increase as they figure out ways to make the planes work harder.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:09 pm

C-MNOP wrote:Dont forget the wonderful house prices in Calgary!!! $95,000 for a three year F/O, who cares??? Well if your a single guy living with a couple other buddies at 30 years old that might be great, but with a family it really sucks. A house now costs $450,000 for a starter home! You need to make $100,000 a year just to keep up. So after stock options and salary for the first two years a person actually has gone backwards because he wouldnt be able to afford a house. Like the rest of you Im just chasing a dream!

Just keep Smilin'!

So move. The commute isn't all bad, and with the schedule ability we have it's that much easier.

Rotten Apple #1 · Post by **Rotten Apple #1** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:34 pm

So buy a house in Winnipeg or Ottawa or Halifax or Moncton ?!

Kelowna's short on F/Os at the port. Why not try out the lovely Okanagan Valley and help improve my schedule at the same time?

WJ700 · Post by **WJ700** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:36 pm

I'm on home number six and didn't start out with a 450K (or equivalent at the time, home). I don't think there are many airlines, or professions for that matter, that will let you buy a first house in that range that fast.

Start with a dump...condo or townhouse, flip and repeat.

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:07 pm

Living in Toronto or YVR would mean buying 45mins to 1 hr away. if you use the same logic in YYC, you could find something affordable.

C-MNOP · Post by **C-MNOP** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:06 pm

Thanks for all the suggestions of buying dumpy apartments and moving to another city and commuting. Typical answers, but I wont get into that.

skyhigh · Post by **skyhigh** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:30 pm

C-MNOP, the solution is simple...."Don't Apply"

express · Post by **express** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:01 pm

...its fantastic...just don't forget that you'll be making sweet F All for the first two and a half years until you're salary AND your ESP contributions increase and cash out. (The same goes for AC by the way. ) Fact is we ALL have to increase the fist couple years pay at AC and WJ.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:14 pm

skyhigh wrote:The solution is simple...."Don't Apply".

or find a new job if your that unhappy. Good luck in your career, find what makes YOU happy and run with it, whatever or where ever that may be.

complexintentions · Post by **complexintentions** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:05 am

lol typically Canadian approach...

guy points out that the starting wages at the two Canadian majors really aren't enough to actually buy a house in the cities they're based in and bascially everyone tells him to f%ck off...

Well, I admit it IS easier than facing up to the fact that 35-50k for the first two years of a job that probably took you ten to get to, really isn't on and maybe DOING something about it...

I would like to think that most professions (read: professional jobs) would allow you to at least hold a mortgage in a major city after you had worked in said profession for that long!

I do agree it's possible to get a dump, move somewhere cheap, etc etc...but that isn't the point here really, IMO.

Red1 · Post by **Red1** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:01 am

realistically there are not many entry levels jobs in Calgary where you can afford a home, it's unfortunately the reality of the Calgary market.