Right now as I type I can hear a fire fight going on outside the wire.
I know those pussy's some people call insurgents are dying. It puts a smile on my face knowing those asshole are going straight to hell.
Call me an asshole for wishing death to them, but once you walk a mile in my shoes, I'm sure your preception of "freedom fighters of Iraq" will change.
I hope some of you thought about those Canadian Forces warriors on Monday, and prayed for them. Why don't some of you put together a care package for them. Send them toiletries, newspaper clippings, batteries etc...
Don't forget you have a few thousand Canadians spending the night in the cold sandy parts of the world too listening to the same gunfire (in Afghan, not here)
Sleep tight.
Iraq
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore
Dear Nark,
Thank you for sharing your experience, I don't know if you are brave or just naive but the only people you are helping being in Irak are the big corporations providing the bullets you are shooting, the shoes, uniform, helmet you are wearing etc...
What is really pathetic is that you gone pull out ANYWAY, so why staying any longer? why waiting 1 more month, 5 more years: it will still be a mess the day the US will walk away from this war...
Nark, don't be too hard on the Irakis your are fighting right now, see this from a different perspective:
the USA have been the biggest producer world wide of WMD and they even used them in the past against civilians, Arab leader decide that the treat is unacceptable and send troops to the USA to "restore democraty"...
If that was the case, you, myself and many other would fight that illegal occupation force...
Nark, don't get hurt, go home quickly before you get damaged, get married with a couple of kids and the world will be a better place...
sincerely
gowest
Thank you for sharing your experience, I don't know if you are brave or just naive but the only people you are helping being in Irak are the big corporations providing the bullets you are shooting, the shoes, uniform, helmet you are wearing etc...
What is really pathetic is that you gone pull out ANYWAY, so why staying any longer? why waiting 1 more month, 5 more years: it will still be a mess the day the US will walk away from this war...
Nark, don't be too hard on the Irakis your are fighting right now, see this from a different perspective:
the USA have been the biggest producer world wide of WMD and they even used them in the past against civilians, Arab leader decide that the treat is unacceptable and send troops to the USA to "restore democraty"...
If that was the case, you, myself and many other would fight that illegal occupation force...
Nark, don't get hurt, go home quickly before you get damaged, get married with a couple of kids and the world will be a better place...
sincerely
gowest
Nark,
Execpt for the part about coming home safe, which we all want you to do, take "gowest"'s post and reverse everything he/she said and that is how I feel.
Kill rather than be killed and stay until the damn job is done (not that you can control that). When I pray tonight it will be that you shoot straight and stay safe, keep up the good work. I have sent care packages to Canadian soldiers and will do again as our soldier came home safely to her family.
Know that many of us support the troops, even gowest seems to support you as individuals, and that we hope you get the job done right and another country gets to know what it is to be a democracy (for good or bad).
I look forward to your next post.
Execpt for the part about coming home safe, which we all want you to do, take "gowest"'s post and reverse everything he/she said and that is how I feel.
Kill rather than be killed and stay until the damn job is done (not that you can control that). When I pray tonight it will be that you shoot straight and stay safe, keep up the good work. I have sent care packages to Canadian soldiers and will do again as our soldier came home safely to her family.
Know that many of us support the troops, even gowest seems to support you as individuals, and that we hope you get the job done right and another country gets to know what it is to be a democracy (for good or bad).
I look forward to your next post.
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niss
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Guys remember that Nark and any other soldier are not the policy makers but the tools of the policy makers. His life is on the line because of the powers that be. There is little point in discussing politics in this thread.
Nark is a soldier and it is a soldiers job to fight. It is a soldiers job to do what he is ordered to do. If a soldier does not kill, then they die. A soldier must do his job.
Good luck Nark, keep your head down, kill all who deserve it and help all who deserve it too.
Nark is a soldier and it is a soldiers job to fight. It is a soldiers job to do what he is ordered to do. If a soldier does not kill, then they die. A soldier must do his job.
Good luck Nark, keep your head down, kill all who deserve it and help all who deserve it too.
She’s built like a Steakhouse, but she handles like a Bistro.
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
+1niss wrote:Guys remember that Nark and any other soldier are not the policy makers but the tools of the policy makers. His life is on the line because of the powers that be. There is little point in discussing politics in this thread.
Nark is a soldier and it is a soldiers job to fight. It is a soldiers job to do what he is ordered to do. If a soldier does not kill, then they die. A soldier must do his job.
Good luck Nark, keep your head down, kill all who deserve it and help all who deserve it too.
Niss you finally wrote something I can agree withC-GGGQ wrote:+1niss wrote:Guys remember that Nark and any other soldier are not the policy makers but the tools of the policy makers. His life is on the line because of the powers that be. There is little point in discussing politics in this thread.
Nark is a soldier and it is a soldiers job to fight. It is a soldiers job to do what he is ordered to do. If a soldier does not kill, then they die. A soldier must do his job.
Good luck Nark, keep your head down, kill all who deserve it and help all who deserve it too.
+2
Take my love
Take my land
Take me where I cannot stand
I don't care
I'm still free
You cannot take the sky from me
Take my land
Take me where I cannot stand
I don't care
I'm still free
You cannot take the sky from me
thinking out loud here. The first thing that war does is to take away basic human rights and freedoms on both sides. If you think that YOUR soldiers will stand up for you, you are very wrong. History has shown it.
Like niss said:
"other soldier are not the policy makers but the tools of the policy makers. His life is on the line because of the powers that be"
"fight. It is a soldiers job to do what he is ordered to "
If they are ordered to oppress palistinians, they do. If they are ordered to crush protestors they do.
Will all this "SPREADING OF DEMOCRACY - THE USA HAS DONE MORE TO SPREAD IT THAN ANYONE" that we hear, do any of these "pussies" get a fair trial? How to tell if someone is innocent or guilty. Or does anyone really care. No.
100 years of war get us...100 more years of war.
I hear what Nark is saying I do not know what it is like to walk a mile in his shoes. I wish him all the best and that he stays safe.
Like niss said:
"other soldier are not the policy makers but the tools of the policy makers. His life is on the line because of the powers that be"
"fight. It is a soldiers job to do what he is ordered to "
If they are ordered to oppress palistinians, they do. If they are ordered to crush protestors they do.
Will all this "SPREADING OF DEMOCRACY - THE USA HAS DONE MORE TO SPREAD IT THAN ANYONE" that we hear, do any of these "pussies" get a fair trial? How to tell if someone is innocent or guilty. Or does anyone really care. No.
100 years of war get us...100 more years of war.
I hear what Nark is saying I do not know what it is like to walk a mile in his shoes. I wish him all the best and that he stays safe.
That'll buff right out 
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Driving Rain
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sky's the limit
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Re: Iraq
Nark wrote: Sleep tight.
I will sleep tight regardless of whether or not you are in Iraq killing people. In fact, I will probably sleep tighter when you are not there... no irony in that.
For a person fighting for a country which was born through a 'glorious gorrilla war,' you people sure seem pretty protective of YOUR rights to independance, just nobody else's. If you were in my soil, I'd fight you with anything I had too, hell, who wouldn't??? Those "pussies" you refer to have some serious balls imho.
If you and all the rest of your mates hate those people so much, go home, they'll be better off for it, you know, like they were BEFORE you arrived? That illegal war has been a disaster for all involved since the get go, particularly the millions of dead, maimed, and homeless Iraqies.
Keep your head down so I can rip it off on here....
stl
I cant believe it, I agree tooLurch wrote:Niss you finally wrote something I can agree withC-GGGQ wrote:+1niss wrote:Guys remember that Nark and any other soldier are not the policy makers but the tools of the policy makers. His life is on the line because of the powers that be. There is little point in discussing politics in this thread.
Nark is a soldier and it is a soldiers job to fight. It is a soldiers job to do what he is ordered to do. If a soldier does not kill, then they die. A soldier must do his job.
Good luck Nark, keep your head down, kill all who deserve it and help all who deserve it too.
+2
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200hr Wonder
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5400AirportRdSouth
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Have to go with STL on this one, the whole debacle in Iraq will be the US's shame to carry for the next 20 years. Animosity created and generations ruined will flavour this part of the worlds treatment and reception to the US for decades to come. ( a cycle that unfortunately was the start of this mess, and unbelievably wasnt learned from in the first 50 years of their entanglement in the M.E. )
That being said, I dont see ( yet ) anything that is overtly sinister or malicious on the part of the majority of the participants ( willing or otherwise ) from the US side of things. Incredibly misguided, horrifically small minded, unbelievably arrogant and with a complete lack of empathy, yes.
If they start unearthing mass graves and concentration camps liquidating" terrorists ", then yes, I would expect Nark to stand up as a human and reject his superiors orders, till then, I respect the fact that he has committed to doing an honourable duty to his country, however misguided that country may be.
I also respect the fact that those selected and trained to do the types of things required of a solider( ie killing other humans ) requires a few natural reactions to that act to be unnaturally ignored or otherwise disregarded. I try to remember this when dealing with members of the armed forces and allow them a latitude of thought and speech that I would be repulsed by in a person of any other profession.
That being said, I dont see ( yet ) anything that is overtly sinister or malicious on the part of the majority of the participants ( willing or otherwise ) from the US side of things. Incredibly misguided, horrifically small minded, unbelievably arrogant and with a complete lack of empathy, yes.
If they start unearthing mass graves and concentration camps liquidating" terrorists ", then yes, I would expect Nark to stand up as a human and reject his superiors orders, till then, I respect the fact that he has committed to doing an honourable duty to his country, however misguided that country may be.
I also respect the fact that those selected and trained to do the types of things required of a solider( ie killing other humans ) requires a few natural reactions to that act to be unnaturally ignored or otherwise disregarded. I try to remember this when dealing with members of the armed forces and allow them a latitude of thought and speech that I would be repulsed by in a person of any other profession.
It's what you don't see on TV that pisses me off. We are fighting a losing battle with the media. Only the ones who are along side us as we get blown up, or take a few rounds seem to get a little respect. They see what its like out here. There are many, many more who stay in the comfort zone of each base and pretend like they know what they're talking about.
1. We are doing a lot of good things over here. Because they don't involve death or destruction, CNN, BBC et al... don't cover it.
2. The people we are fight are indeed cowards. They hide in mosque's, use young teenagers (12 year olds and even younger) and blow up innocent people almost on a daily basis.
I can understand you not agreeing with what and why we are here, but to give them any credit baffles my mind.
I have yet to see any violation of the Law of Armed Conflict. I doubt I will see any violation either. We are held to a very high standard and if we falter from that we will pay severly by way of Courts Martial.
It's taken a long time, but there are measurable successes here. To bad it comes at the cost of young warriors lives.
1. We are doing a lot of good things over here. Because they don't involve death or destruction, CNN, BBC et al... don't cover it.
2. The people we are fight are indeed cowards. They hide in mosque's, use young teenagers (12 year olds and even younger) and blow up innocent people almost on a daily basis.
I can understand you not agreeing with what and why we are here, but to give them any credit baffles my mind.
I have yet to see any violation of the Law of Armed Conflict. I doubt I will see any violation either. We are held to a very high standard and if we falter from that we will pay severly by way of Courts Martial.
It's taken a long time, but there are measurable successes here. To bad it comes at the cost of young warriors lives.
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
It makes me wonder why this military is not standing up for the freedoms of the people. After all they are a local force.
UN Security Council Denounces Burma's Military Crackdown on Protesters
By VOA News
11 October 2007
The U.N. Security Council on Thursday denounced the recent military crackdown against pro-democracy protesters in Burma and called for a release of all political prisoners there.
Permanent members of the council with veto powers, China and Russia, had been pushing for softer language, while the United States and other Western powers want tougher action against the military-backed government.
The non-binding statement was issued as U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said he would dispatch special adviser Ibrahim Gambari back to the region for consultations on the situation in Burma.
Ibrahim Gambari briefs members of UN Security Council on his recent tour and findings in Burma, 05 Oct 2007
The U.N. says Gambari will begin his Asian tour on Monday in Thailand before continuing to Malaysia, Indonesia, India, China and Japan. He will return to Burma shortly thereafter.
Gambari returned from a four-day visit to Burma last week.
Burmese officials say the crackdown on pro-democracy protesters left 10 people dead. Dissidents put the number of fatalities at 200.
UN Security Council Denounces Burma's Military Crackdown on Protesters
By VOA News
11 October 2007
The U.N. Security Council on Thursday denounced the recent military crackdown against pro-democracy protesters in Burma and called for a release of all political prisoners there.
Permanent members of the council with veto powers, China and Russia, had been pushing for softer language, while the United States and other Western powers want tougher action against the military-backed government.
The non-binding statement was issued as U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said he would dispatch special adviser Ibrahim Gambari back to the region for consultations on the situation in Burma.
Ibrahim Gambari briefs members of UN Security Council on his recent tour and findings in Burma, 05 Oct 2007
The U.N. says Gambari will begin his Asian tour on Monday in Thailand before continuing to Malaysia, Indonesia, India, China and Japan. He will return to Burma shortly thereafter.
Gambari returned from a four-day visit to Burma last week.
Burmese officials say the crackdown on pro-democracy protesters left 10 people dead. Dissidents put the number of fatalities at 200.
That'll buff right out
Here's another one. Coincidence?
Japan Slashes Aid to Burma After Crackdown
By Naomi Martig
Hong Kong
16 October 2007
Japan has canceled almost $5 million in aid to Burma, in its first action against the military government since security forces cracked down on pro-democracy demonstrators in Rangoon and killed a Japanese journalist. Naomi Martig reports from VOA's Asia News Center in Hong Kong.
Photo released by Democratic Voice of Burma showing Japanese journalist as he lays in the street after being shot in Rangoon, 27 Sep 2007
Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary, Nobutaka Machimura, says Japan has decided to withhold a $4.7 million grant for the construction of a Japan-Burma community exchange center.
Machimura says Japan is urging Burma's military government to listen to the international community and work toward democracy. Japan is one of Burma's largest aid donors.
When security forces in Rangoon fired into crowds of peaceful protesters in late September, at least 10 people were killed, including Japanese video journalist Kenji Nagai.
Burma has said Nagai's death was accidental and that he was hit by a stray bullet. Video footage of Nagai's death appears to show a soldier shooting him at close range. Japanese authorities have demanded an investigation of the incident.
Japan Slashes Aid to Burma After Crackdown
By Naomi Martig
Hong Kong
16 October 2007
Japan has canceled almost $5 million in aid to Burma, in its first action against the military government since security forces cracked down on pro-democracy demonstrators in Rangoon and killed a Japanese journalist. Naomi Martig reports from VOA's Asia News Center in Hong Kong.
Photo released by Democratic Voice of Burma showing Japanese journalist as he lays in the street after being shot in Rangoon, 27 Sep 2007
Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary, Nobutaka Machimura, says Japan has decided to withhold a $4.7 million grant for the construction of a Japan-Burma community exchange center.
Machimura says Japan is urging Burma's military government to listen to the international community and work toward democracy. Japan is one of Burma's largest aid donors.
When security forces in Rangoon fired into crowds of peaceful protesters in late September, at least 10 people were killed, including Japanese video journalist Kenji Nagai.
Burma has said Nagai's death was accidental and that he was hit by a stray bullet. Video footage of Nagai's death appears to show a soldier shooting him at close range. Japanese authorities have demanded an investigation of the incident.
That'll buff right out
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5400AirportRdSouth
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Hi Nark,
Yeah, there is always two sides, and I could easily see how the media would find little use these days for reporting on the good things that are happening there.
I am positive that 95% of all the people over there are relatively decent, and their intentions are good.
If the Chinese bombed Vancouver into ruins, then marched in and started building schools and hospitals, I'm not convinced we'd be lining the streets to throw roses.
Like I said, this isnt personal, I understand your role, and I can personally accept your liking it even. Its the big picture I have serious problems with.
In that light, anything the media can do to paint the US govt into a corner, where pulling out and learning their lesson once and for all, is fair game in my books, even if its biased against US forces.
Obviously, killing children and terrorizing a population with civilian / random attacks is not OK. However.... the lines get a little blurred, gray even, when you are defending your country against a foreign occupier.
I would sanction a lot of unthinkable things to defend my home, I simply have to allow the possibility that this is what is occuring in Iraq when we hear of some of the horrific " terrorist " acts... Otherwise, I'd be a hypocrite.
And my disclaimer - sitting here in my den, having a drink, who the hell am I to say what their motivations are / arent. I have had very little exposure to the people of Iraq. My heart wants to think they are decent folks at the end of the day, but... I dont have much to go one...other than CNN, and according to them they are all terrorists and democrats.
Keep your head down,
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." GEORGE ORWELL
Yeah, there is always two sides, and I could easily see how the media would find little use these days for reporting on the good things that are happening there.
I am positive that 95% of all the people over there are relatively decent, and their intentions are good.
If the Chinese bombed Vancouver into ruins, then marched in and started building schools and hospitals, I'm not convinced we'd be lining the streets to throw roses.
Like I said, this isnt personal, I understand your role, and I can personally accept your liking it even. Its the big picture I have serious problems with.
In that light, anything the media can do to paint the US govt into a corner, where pulling out and learning their lesson once and for all, is fair game in my books, even if its biased against US forces.
Obviously, killing children and terrorizing a population with civilian / random attacks is not OK. However.... the lines get a little blurred, gray even, when you are defending your country against a foreign occupier.
I would sanction a lot of unthinkable things to defend my home, I simply have to allow the possibility that this is what is occuring in Iraq when we hear of some of the horrific " terrorist " acts... Otherwise, I'd be a hypocrite.
And my disclaimer - sitting here in my den, having a drink, who the hell am I to say what their motivations are / arent. I have had very little exposure to the people of Iraq. My heart wants to think they are decent folks at the end of the day, but... I dont have much to go one...other than CNN, and according to them they are all terrorists and democrats.
Keep your head down,
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." GEORGE ORWELL
The problem is that at first we gave the power back to the Iraqi's and they fucked it up. Read into the Battle of Fallujah before Operation Phatom Fury in late 2004.
We gave the Iraqi Army (IA) a chance to go out and seek the bad guys, and half of them ended up dropping their AK's and running away.
Fast forward 3 years to today, and the IA is pretty locked on, accomplishing missions. The Police are coming around, however I'm not as trusting with them as I am the IA.
Would I like an all expenses paid trip to Burma/Myanmar? Sure I'll go.
We gave the Iraqi Army (IA) a chance to go out and seek the bad guys, and half of them ended up dropping their AK's and running away.
Fast forward 3 years to today, and the IA is pretty locked on, accomplishing missions. The Police are coming around, however I'm not as trusting with them as I am the IA.
Would I like an all expenses paid trip to Burma/Myanmar? Sure I'll go.
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
Still scratching my head. Here's another one where the troops did not stand up for your freedoms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
The Kent State shootings, also known as the May 4 massacre or Kent State massacre, occurred at Kent State University in the city of Kent, Ohio, and involved the shooting of students by members of the Ohio National Guard on Monday, May 4, 1970. Four students were killed and nine others wounded, one of whom suffered permanent paralysis.[2]
Some of the students who were shot were protesting the American invasion of Cambodia, which President Richard Nixon announced in a television address on April 30. However, other students who were shot were merely walking nearby or observing the protest at a distance.[3][4]
There was a significant national response to the shootings: hundreds of universities, colleges, high schools, and even middle schools closed throughout the United States due to a student strike of eight million students, and the event further divided the country along political lines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
The Kent State shootings, also known as the May 4 massacre or Kent State massacre, occurred at Kent State University in the city of Kent, Ohio, and involved the shooting of students by members of the Ohio National Guard on Monday, May 4, 1970. Four students were killed and nine others wounded, one of whom suffered permanent paralysis.[2]
Some of the students who were shot were protesting the American invasion of Cambodia, which President Richard Nixon announced in a television address on April 30. However, other students who were shot were merely walking nearby or observing the protest at a distance.[3][4]
There was a significant national response to the shootings: hundreds of universities, colleges, high schools, and even middle schools closed throughout the United States due to a student strike of eight million students, and the event further divided the country along political lines.
That'll buff right out
Yeah, let's compare that to what is going on today. If you want to go back to Kent State era why not go back to WWII? Should we have rolled over and played dead for Adolf to rule the world? You could kiss the free speach you have on this forum goodbye if that was the case. How about this, let's have every soldier in the world turn in their guns for a boquet of flowers.
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sky's the limit
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sigmet77 wrote: Should we have rolled over and played dead for Adolf to rule the world?
How about this, let's have every soldier in the world turn in their guns for a boquet of flowers.
Hitler and Saddam? Um not even close, especially considering the U.S. made Saddam what he was.... The U.S., Britain, and to a lesser extent France, have made Iraq the cesspool it is today, they have nobody to thank but themselves. What the Bush Administration has unleashed on the population of that country is nothing short of criminal, whatever their trumped up reasons of the day are. It's Nark's bosses that should be strung up.
As for the flowers, that's actually one hell of an idea.
stl
