What's so great about working at Jazz?

Valcore · Post by **Valcore** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:06 pm

Sage is a visible minority. So you reasoning checks out.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:35 pm

prop2jet wrote:
I still believe the majority of young kids who want to be pilots still aim at flying heavy iron all over the world. Not just for the money but for the passion.
Passion in aviation is what you make of it. For most the allure of the bigger plane is driven by Money and in more than a few EGO. It takes a certain level of maturity to realize that you can still do well in this industry and not fly the heavy metal.

Well said. The reality is that most young people getting into aviation are not thinking about flying a "small" airplane their whole career or even profit sharing. It's got nothing to do with EGO when you're in your teens or twenties. It's all about a dream. And in most cases it lasts forever. The bitterness takes place when it doesn't happen. That's when "maturity" should kick in.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:50 pm

Dark Helmet wrote:Tony.

I think you missed my point. I meant in a sense of going to AC as a Jazz perk, not career aspirarions.

Your argument is that of a prospect of employment with AC is a perk with Jazz. disagree. Here is why.

Say you have 2 pilots. Both with the same experience. One goes to Jazz, the other goes to say another carrier, Geogian, CMA, Calm Air, you pick.

The pilot that went to the other airline could potentially be at AC within 10 months to a year.

The Jazz pilot will have to wait for 1.5 year just ot get a call, then a few months to get the job offer, then another few months to get the course date. Finally after 2 years to be at AC. I can see why the bitterness and fustration in some, timing is big thing in a hiring spree.

In the end. Being a Jazz does not improve you chances of being at AC, I would say it is about the same, It may even delay it due to the political nature between our two companies.

As far as career aspirations goes. I agree, most want to fly the big iron. Myself included at one time. Today I kinda like the short haul, hand flying, uncontrolled airspace, etc. but just is just me. That is not so say that I will never fly the big iron.

Correct me if I'm wrong but when you work at Jazz and your number comes up for AC, are you not guaranteed an interview? I don't think you're guaranteed an interview anwhere else. If your interview goes well, you're given a seniority number, right? Those of us who came up through Jazz might not have made it to the mainline otherwise. That's a simple fact. That's a simple perk. My point is you have to pass the interview just like anyone else but unlike anywhere else you are guaranteed a shot at it.

bobcaygeon · Post by **bobcaygeon** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:21 pm

Tony
If you've got the qualifications AC will call you, especially now. They even hired me.

When you were hired the OTS/Regional hire ratio was far higher. It was even written in LOU20. Now its not. It ain't what it used to be, is all that is being stated.

Sort of the like the rest of the pilot lifestyle/money at AC/Jazz

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:47 am

Ac will call you? Who says? What guarantee do you have? There are hundreds of guys out there with more than enough qualifications who get PFO'd right away. AC's new hiring practices are more confusing than ever and there are no guarantees for anyone, except Jazz pilots. It should be improved, no doubt. I am certainly not disputing that. In fact I have stated that in many past threads.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:23 am

AC isn't calling Jazz guys anymore. The guaranteed interview is over.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:37 am

Four more courses planned for the rest of the year will include 31 from Jazz. There are 70 held under lou 18 will join us in 2008. Are these the last to come over then??

Traf · Post by **Traf** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:18 am

AC's new hiring practices are more confusing than ever and there are no guarantees for anyone, except Jazz pilots

tony, you are wrong in that statement. The only guarantee the Jazz pilots have is the old lou18 that guaranteed an interview. I don't even know if that applies anymore and even if it does, the only guarantee a Jazz pilot has is of the interview. After that, the ratio of Jazz/OTS is very low on the Jazz side.

The bullshit freeze thing is no picnic for the Jazz guys either as you are told that you are hired and a number is held for you. Then you sign a waiver allowing AC access to your employment file at Jazz while your 2 years is burning up. Make one mistake during that time or raise some shit with a manager and AC suddenly rescinds their offer of employment and you got nothin!!! Two seperate companies right? I am sure that anyone at Jazz that was hired by AC would have loved to pack their things and head over to their new job rather than sit for 2 years with that waiver hanging over your head and AC watching your every move. From what I understand, there has been a handful of guys that were hired and fired before they even got on the property for something they did at Jazz, not while working for AC. Nice guarantee!

If you are OTS and have decent resume, eventually you will get an interview. Yes some OTS guys have been PFO'd but so have a very high percentage of Jazz applicants. They can't hire everyone and a guaranteed interview in this market is essentially worthless as just about everyone and their dog is at least getting interviewed by AC. A guaranteed offer of employment would be different but the interview thing holds very little value in todays reality.

Just be thankful that you are at a company that does not think that the only way to fill the seat is by hiring college grads fresh off the production line. Maybe it is time for me to apply to AC as I have very little desire to do Ab-initio traingin while flying the line.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:22 pm

Traf. I never said you are guaranteed a job. Only the interview. That's more than many OTS guys get. Some OTS guys have waited years. I don't want to beat a dead horse here, I've made myself pretty clear about AC needing to hire more Jazz guys in many previous posts. Still, many Jazz guys have joined the mainline and that was a benefit of being at Jazz. Granted, things are not what they used to be.

uncleron · Post by **uncleron** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:17 pm

I would also think that hiring from Jazz is a human resource dream for AC.
Being able to have access to a potential employees attendance, personal and training files is a great benefit to weed out potential problem employees.
My wife is in management and when she gets calls for refeference checks she is only able to verify that the employee does work for her...anything else gets into legal muddy waters under the privacy act.
Not to mention that a frozen Jazz pilot is basically on probation for over 3 years.
So looks like there is an upside of the LOU for both AC,Jazz and the successful Jazz candidate.

Sage · Post by **Sage** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:32 pm

Valcore wrote:Sage is a visible minority. So you reasoning checks out.

Ooohhhhttaaaayyyy......
You're even more of an idiot with a bad case of sour grapes.

Traf · Post by **Traf** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:10 am

Tony, a couple of years ago the guarantee of an interview might have been attractive. Many people did wait years to get an interview at AC OTS but in the current environment, most poeple with a decent resume are now getting their shot and not having to wait like before thus making the guaranteed interview less of a perk if one considers all the other strings attached to it. This pilot boom looks like it will last forever but as we all know in this industry, it will come to a halt at some point in time but at the moment, OTS has a better chance than from little red.

But hey, those are the chance you take right. Some cam to the Reginoals to use it as a stepping stone but got caught when things changed during CCAA. Anyone coming post CCAA should have known what the odds were as the info was out there.

Beer time

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:44 am

I have to wonder if the unions don't have a hand in this. It seems AC/Jazz have done everything they can to stop the Jazz pilots going to mainline and yet nothing seems to be done about the exodus of Jazz pilots to other companies. These are very strange times indeed.

Traf · Post by **Traf** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:15 am

Oh I would bet both managements, ACPA and ALPA have had some influence of some sort. I wouldn't say there is a conspiracy, certainly not with those groups, but would rather suggest that each little sector fought for what they saw would be in their best ineterest.

Jazz may cry the blues about losing guys but when they have managers in ground school telling people to leave if they don't like, I highly doubt that keeping them around was a huge priority. Hiring from the colleges is not something they were forced into due to a pilot shortage, it was something they wanted to do. They now will have a group of pilots that will have a difficult time leaving in the next few years. This means they can pay them shit, treat them like shit and not have to worry about them taking their ball and leaving. Who knows, maybe someone high up at Jazz had a friend that was a high up at one of the colleges and this was a favour to him. With all the secret handshakes and crap going on behind closed doors, anything is possible.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:27 am

Yeah, no kidding. The whole thing is incredible.

pacman007 · Post by **pacman007** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:02 pm

ok here is my thing...if jazz is hiring all these low timers with less than 500 mpic, 12500 time even if they are guarenteed an interviw with AC they dont have a hope in....of getting in..am i right..isnt it better to hold off on jazz untill you have enought time to get another job should jazz ever lay you off??

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:36 am

Like I said earlier, AC isn't even interviewing from Jazz anymore. I don't even think AC is interviewing at all - they have enough guys in the pool. If you come to Jazz think of it as where you're staying, or a stepping stone for WJ or oversea's - NOT a way to get to AC.