Airspace Closures - Q from Dunnunda

[Leviticus]

G'day Canuck Controllers,

I'm an Aussie ATC and have a Q regarding some issues here (where Christmas is the hottest time of the year) with short staffing and airspace closures.

Q: IF, due to no staff (flu epidemic, Ebola, staff have the sh!ts with management etc), a sector in Canada is unmanned for a few hours, does the airspace become 'G' (ie you can fly thru IFR but good luck, you are on your own, the frequency is now a Common Traffic Advisory Frequency for pilots to talk to each other) or a Temporary Restricted area (IFR go around it)???

Any recent examples?

Thanks a bunch (of Aussie beers),

L

[thatdaveguy]

interesting. i've never heard of an unmanned sector in canada...ever, but I'm not a centre controller. looking forward to the responses on this one.

[Leviticus]

a recent example...

ATS C5549/07 REVIEW C5546/07
ATS IN THE MELBOURNE FIR SUBJECT TO CONTINGENCY DUE TO STAFF SHORTAGE

MELBOURNE CENTRE 133.2 (ESPERANCE AREA), 134.2 (CAIGUNA AREA), 132.7 (NULLARBOR AREA), 130.9 (WARBURTON AREA), 133.95 (AREA SOUTH OF CANDY -KROWS - CRENA) AND 123.5 (CEDUNA AREA).

CONTINGENCY MAP AVAILABLE AT: HTTP://WWW.AIRSERVICESAUSTRALIA.COM/NOT ... NULNLO.PDF

APRX AREA:
95 NM WEST ESP, 150 NM NORTH-WEST ESP, 115 NM NORTH-WEST CAG, 36 NM NORTH AGTIK, 80 NM EAST OF WLU, 22 NM EAST OF NONAX, 170 NM NORTH-NORTH-EAST OF WBR, 10 NM WEST GLS, 80 NM EAST OF WBR, 160 NM NORTH YNUB, 85 NM EAST-NORTH-EAST CDU, MTP, HYDRA, CANDY CRENA, TUNGO.

VERTICAL LIMITS: SFC - F285

TWR, TCU AND MILITARY AREAS WITHIN THE ABOVE AIRSPACE CONTINUE TO OPERATE AS PER ERSA UNLESS SPECIFIED OTHERWISE.

MAJOR ATS ROUTES:
GREAT AUSTRALIAN BIGHT ROUTES BTN 200 NM PERTH AND MTP
A585 BTN BIDAP AND ABTOD
T21 BTN 17 NM SOUTH-EAST NONAX AND 54 NORTH WEST WENER
B469 BTN 45 NM EAST OF DOTOP AND ABTOD
J141 BTN SEVSI AND 42 NM WEST RUSAD
V621 BTN CDU AND 93 NM SOUTH-EAST CDU
Q158 BTN CRENA AND CANDY

ATC SER ARE NOT AVBL IN CLASSES A AND E AIRSPACE.
DIRECTED TRAFFIC ADVISORY INFO SER IS NOT AVBL IN CLASS E AND G AIRSPACE.

DIRECTED TRAFFIC SER IS NOT AVBL IN CLASS G AIRSPACE.
ADS/CPDLC LOGON: YMMM SER NOT AVBL THIS AIRSPACE. PILOTS MAY REMAIN LOGGED ON BUT POSITION REPORTS MUST BE BROADCAST ON THE APPROPRIATE FREQUENCY.

FLW PROC APPLY:
TRAFFIC INFO BCST PROC (TIBA) AS DETAILED IN AIP GEN 3.3 AND ICAO ANNEX 11 SHALL BE USED.

TCAS AND TRANSPONDER EQPT MUST BE SELECTED AT ALL TIMES.
PILOTS OPR THROUGH AIRSPACE MORE THAN 12 NM FROM THE AUSTRALIAN COASTLINE CAN ESTABLISH COM WITH BRISBANE ON HF: SEA-3, INO-1, OR SP-6.

PILOTS CONSIDERING OPR IN CLASS A OR E AIRSPACE SHOULD CTC THE MELBOURNE OPS DIRECTOR TEL xxxxxxxxxxx FOR FURTHER INFO.

FROM 12 030600 TO 12 030700

[thatdaveguy]

wow...hope that's not busy airspace.

i have never seen anything like that here in canada. they just slow everything down with flow control to allow less controllers to handle the workload.

the controllers in short staffed canadian sectors just work a LOT of OT

[Jerricho]

Hi Lev,

Make mine a slab-a-VB and we'll talk mate

I can't say we've seen anything like or requiring TIBA procedures ASA implemented, but we have seen some hefty flow in due short staffing. There always seemed to be a body with a pulse to fill the position, plus we don't have the same fatigue guidelines or rostering principles. 9 days on, 1 day off, 10 hours between shift (and that can be reduced to 8 if waived by the controller), maximum of 12 hour shift, with some instances where staff have stayed for 13-14 hours.

I believe our Seth African brethren would be more the folk to ask.

[thatdaveguy]

it's not unheard of in the FSS world to work 16 hour shifts...semi common

[burly]

Edmonton North High specialty routinely closed airspace 2 years ago due to staff shortages. Most often it was the klondike sector that stretches from the Alaska border east over the Yukon.

[Leviticus]

Did they become G airspace (IFR fly thru uncontrolled) or Restricted airspace (IFR fly around it)?

[burly]

All traffic was rerouted around the closed airspace thru to YVR ACC airspace which usually resulted in a few hundred miles of diversion. Some freighters filed below FL290 to the low sectors.

[Leviticus]

All I've got from this question I've posted is:

1. EG Nth High shut some airspace 2 years ago and it went TRA from the sounds of Burly's post (beers when we cross paths!)...no one else? You have never shut another sector?

2. As I understand it then, if it involves shutting airspace, someone will extend? Or someone will always come in (9 and 1) even if its 16 hours continuous at the office?

To burly, thatdaveguy, Jerricho I've posted a link to your responses on this thread on the members only part of our union site (http://www.civilair.asn.au/joomla/)thanks guys.

If any of the three hundred viewers that don't comment, want to comment, please do (we are entering Agreement negotiations in April and value any comment or input please). Even if its about some poor guy working 9 and 1 or 16 hours straight to 'keep the motor running'. Your Aussie mates appreciate your input.

Also, for Burly, is EG Nth Hi now fully staffed (lack of airspace closures)?

[kevenv]

If I am not mistaken, back in the early 90's an unusually large number of our Winnipeg brethren fell ill at the same time. I was working in Cold Lake at the time and our airspace was huge with no vertical cap. We received a call from Ottawa telling us what was going on and asking would we be able to cap all of our military flights to FL280 and blo and give control of the airspace above to Transport Canada. They explained that they had to re route a/c around the most affected (read closed) airspace. No class G, more like class F Restricted, no entry. They also said we could either give it to them freely or we could say no and they would bring in the Ministers of Defense and Transport to get it. Oh, and could we please make up our minds quickly? LOL

[Leviticus]

Thanks for the input.

[invertedattitude]

If a sector of airspace is understaffed, there's one simple solution, restrict traffic to a workable level for those that are on sight, re-route what you can.

Give airplanes the option... you can hold for 30 min, or reroute via XXXX.

Yes the airlines are going to be ticked, but it looks a helluva lot better than closing Class A airspace.

[burly]

Yes EG North High is working its way up to normal staffing levels. There has been no restrictions or closures for a while now. The problem is North high covers millions of square kms and its not like other sectors where you could just put flow control in. I think management was pretty screwed and had no choice but to shut the airspace and restrict it. I think they tried every possible overtime option before it got to that.

I worked a specialty in Edmonton that was at 60% staff for quite some time and it became a routine thing to extend our available overtime hours for the 56 day period. So guys were pretty much unlimited on the overtime they could work. On some shifts every controller that was working was on overtime so you can do the math there....

[invertedattitude]

If you don't have the staff you just don't have them I guess.

However in theory anyway they always could re-route with a tech fuel stop rather than flying in uncontrolled airspace. Some airlines from Europe simply would refuse to operate in uncontrolled airspace no matter the cost.

[pokaroo]

2. As I understand it then, if it involves shutting airspace, someone will extend? Or someone will always come in (9 and 1) even if its 16 hours continuous at the office?

Can't comment on closing airspaces but we do have in our contract a clause of no more than 12 hours of continuous work unless an emergency situation dictates otherwise. The fact that there is no staff does not count as an emergency.

[Jerricho]

Some airlines from Europe simply would refuse to operate in uncontrolled airspace no matter the cost.

And you base this statement on what? Got a list?

[invertedattitude]

Some airlines from Europe simply would refuse to operate in uncontrolled airspace no matter the cost.

And you base this statement on what? Got a list?

In my ramp days I had a Condor pilot (Thomas Cook) tell me they're not allowed to fly into an "uncontrolled area" now if that means airport or airspace I'm not sure.

I obviously don't have a list, not sure why anyone would make one, but I've heard various people speak of certain European airlines unwilling to operate in uncontrolled airspace.

You're from there Jerricho, just exactly how much uncontrolled airspace is over there?

[Jerricho]

In the UK, there are quite a few Airports below the airways structure in Class G, requiring aircraft to leave uncontrolled airspace before entering a tower zone (ATZ). Now I'm relying on my crap memory, but up till recently, Prestwick was Class G and there is serious heavy metal flying in and out of there. You've heard of Farnborough? Same thing (or did they apply and get it?) Lo-cost operators blast in and out of these airfields as well (operating 737/757s), and quite a few of those are subsidiaries of "Big Airlines". Wanting to fly "point to point" rather than filing airways, public transport operations are common place outside controlled airspace. Even some airways are designated "Advisory Only". Outside of the airway structure in the huge chunks of Class G, the military go out and beat the crap out of each other. ATC can offer services outside (ATCSOCA) involving a radar or information service. I believe there are quite a few airports outside controlled airspace on the mainland as well (Norway seems to spring to mind).

The reason I ask........go ask Mr Google (or one of your European friends) about flying in African airspace.

[Leviticus]

Happy New Year from Dunnunda....

1. http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/stor ... 52,00.html

2. http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/stor ... 02,00.html

[Jerricho]

Little birdy tells me Melbourne Tower had "a service problem" shop a week or so ago............

[Leviticus]

Brisbane Courier Mail



And...
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread ... 788&page=9

[pokaroo]

Good luck down there!!

Good for you guys for actually putting something in writing and giving it to the press.